Modern Vespa

Thank you! I'm thinking it won't be too difficult a build at this point. I feel like I have the basics down for assembly and it doesn't sound too complex in terms of tuning. Hoping to pull the trigger soon on some parts.

I'm Envious

I'm going to have to build it in stages to spread out the costs. Better in the long run than trying to save money by cheaping out on parts. I have all winter. Goes like this:

Stage 1: Bottom end

Stage 2:Top end

Stage 3: Carb and clutch

Case is already on my bench.

I sold my GP and part of the payment is a new set of Malossi cases, top end and some other stuffs. Gunna be following the hell outta this thread!

Glad you will be following along, but don't hold your breath. It's going to take me a couple more dives under the couch cushions for some change before I can get this started. But it will get built by spring.

I really like the paint and wear and tear on your scooter. I love 2 tone, but it's hard to do without making it look like a bodge.

Thank you very much! I can't take credit for the look of the bike as it currently sits as I bought it in it's current state. After our rally in November she's getting a good ol tear down for paint and bodywork. Knowing me I'll start a silly thread about it with too many pics and a crap ton of stupid questions!

I'm generally not a fan of two-tone, but I really like the look of yours. Share some good pictures before you tear it down for inspiration to the rest of us.

That green, along with the overall style, has a very vintage vibe to it that makes it all work.

This! Very cool and unique!

It's been awhile since I started spitballing this engine, but I'm feeling like it's time to get some parts for this box.

I'm using a LML EFL gearbox in a Malossi VR-1 case. I'm wondering what size bearing and seal I need for the output shaft. Also wondering is the LML X-mas tree shaft fits the Malossi case as is. I will be changing the primary gear to 65t. Does the stock VSX gear work or do I need something speshul?

I could just measure, but I'm away from home for the next couple of days.

Thanks!

The output shaft bearing is the same size as standard. The V1 case doesn't have a weep hole, don't know about the VR1. The efl has the bearing surface for the internal seal. Freak Moped has a vid about it. You will be using a bigger bearing on the crank for one side. Your trans parts will work fine. You need the efl shift box, I got the KR Automation and it's bad ass. I don't know the internal seal number offhand but can give you that info when I get home. I think the internal dimension is 24 mm for the shaft.

Not sure if it's the same, but tried to put a lml primary into a set of PX cases and the end wouldn't fit into the flywheel side.

Measured vs stock PX and it's fatter… I think you can swap the end out of the flywheel side, but didn't try it myself.

Hmm, I had that setup in a PX case. It was Indian but had different marks than LML on it. Forgot what the letters were.

Thank you. I think I would be safer checking fit beforehand.

Yeah I didn't think to check that time. I was literally closing the cases when I discover it.

Ended up finding an old stock primary and installing that.

I know the spindle on the primary is one of the things that has varied over the years. I think Malossi cases are PX based, but checking the thing in the thing will give the answer.

Ever consider ordering stuff as a substitute for getting actual work done on your scooter when you can't work on it?

Yeah give it a measure… I've swapped primaries all over the place, from this engine to that engine.

DRT, stock, SIP… never had an issue till I tried the LML primary… never occurred to me it could be a thing… but good to know now.

Well the Stella primary seems to fit the Malossi case. I'm referring to the fly side end. I think that's the only place where they are different. Going to pull the trigger on the bottom end parts. 🙂

That's great… one less thing to worry about…

What's left to buy on the parts list?

Just about everything. I break it up in stages to minimize the impact on the budget.

First round is bottom end:
Crank, seals, bearings, primary gear and widgets.

Stage 2: Top end

Stage 3: Clutch, carb, exhaust.

Always leave the best till last…

Just wondering about the cruciform. Since it's an EFL gearbox from a Stella, it takes the flat cruciform.

Is it worth ordering a Piaggio cruciform from SIP or is this one ok?:

https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Cruciform/223225

I go with the Crimaz cruciform.

FMP did an entire video set testing different cruciforms a little while back, but I don't recall his favorite off the top of my head.

I've found the BFA ones last the longest. Last couple I've brought are sip's own. No info on longevity but they've got to be at least mid range.

His favourite was stock piaggio cruciform.

But the test he did with the hammer are a little bias…

He's only hitting one prong. He didn't hit all 4 at once (which we all know is probably not possible to test…) and the position you hit is important for the test too.

At the end of the day, it is rotational forces… not perpendicular strikes.

I've used the Polini and vmc without an issues… seem like good parts.

Thank you!

Also something else, is you rarely see cruciforms break when doing a gearbox rebuild. Or you hear of people suddenly not being able to change gears because the cruciform snapped.

Cruciform problems usually happen when they're worn to the point they're not square and they slip out of gear, or more banging into gear because the distance is greater.

Wonder why more pronged cruciforms aren't more common…

Because they need all the metal they can get to keep the driveshaft from shearing off. Think about how much stress there is on that shaft, and it's both hollow and going from a longer moment arm on the gearing section to a shorter moment arm at the shaft, so LOTS of force transfer going on all the time there.

Smallie's have something we don't know about…??

Can't be saving it for all those race engines…

That BFA is 7 pronged!

Over the weekend, I ordered the Malossi sport kit from Scooter Mercato.

Last items will be from SIP:

VMC clutch 23t
Dellorto 30 PHBH
SIP Road 3.1
Cruciform

Wondering about a short 4th.

A bit of a waste not to use a short 4th.

Especially if you're building a touring engine.

That's kind of what I was thinking. I don't mind the tall 4th on my stock 200, but it definitely lugs at the point you would intuitively shift into 4th.

The short 4th is not your sexy upgrade. You'll simply never notice it's there. That's because it's the natural place to change gear and makes the steps between gears fairly even.
I know Jack says it's easy to add more power to allow for the bigger gap - what that means is it's easy for him.

Short 4th, with primary gearing to suit engine power... every time.

Short 4th with a 24t clutch is a great combo for a kitted touring engine. You'll be loping along at 62-65mph on the highway without taxing the rpms very much.

My favorite cruciform was the original DRT cross from about 12 years ago. The SIP Series Pro cross is butter soft. The Crimaz shift cross in my PK smallframe took a fair amount of filing to fit, so i don't buy Crimas crosses anymore. I just bought a couple VMC EFL crosses for my PX builds.

I'm assuming that the gearbox from the Stella would use an EFL short 4th rather than one made for an early P since it uses the flat cruciform, etc.

Hopefully last question; Could someone point me to the right assortment of jets for the Dellorto PHBH? Just to get started. I don't know anything about this carb.

Thanks!

Yes, the Stella transmission would use an EFL T5 4th gear.

Thank you

What cylinder kit will you use? Malossi 221 reeds?

It's the Malossi Sport:

https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Cylinders/M-3118591_2

with a Max 60mm bell crank:

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/bell-shaped-crankshaft-mazzucchelli_45041000?usrc=Racing%20Crankshafts%20-%20Reed%20Valve

VR-1 reed case. I will be using the reed block that came with the case with a Dellorto 30 PHBH.

I will be running the gear stack from a Stella with a 65t primary that I will install when rebuilding the Christmas tree. Gonna try the short 4th.

Trying to keep it simple and budget friendly. It should be enough for someone like me who is already pretty happy with a stock 200.

I have always had a bias toward keeping things close to stock for long distance travel. But none of these parts seem particularly exotic or hard to replace on the road.

I was going to hold off on getting the remaining parts (clutch, carb, exhaust) until I had most of the engine built. But I think I am just going to get the rest and take a weekend to build it. Seems to go better than dragging it out.

Ah ok cool.

Yeah depending on your ignition and squish…

Variable ignition (retards 8 degrees, set at 24deg at 1700rpm). 1.3mm squish.

55pilot
X2needle 2nd clip down from the top
AS266
140main

Has worked well for me on a malossi 221. I've done it about 5 times on different engines now, so can vouch for the combo. If it doesn't work, there's something wrong with the setup.

Usually ignition timing that's wrong. If the squish is different, it'll change too…

If it's a more linear ignition curve, you want to drop the pilot a size or 2 down. So you might end up at around 52.

Also a needle clip up, but you need to keep track of the engine getting hot. Because everything leans out.

Oh and do try to widen the exhaust port… makes a hell of a difference. I usually aim for a chord width of 47mm.

Get the pin welded on that Mazzy, they tend to twist. Quality has been shit for the past two years…