I was hoping for an easy fix but now I'm thinking it's a stator issue.
Tried so far:
-spark plug
-plug wire
-known working CDI
Anything else I should try before pulling the flywheel?
⚠️ Last edited by mor_ on UTC; edited 1 time
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Been wanting a 200 (rally or p) for a while -and found this P200 for a good deal because it wouldn't spark. The headlight does light up while bump starting.
I was hoping for an easy fix but now I'm thinking it's a stator issue. Tried so far: -spark plug -plug wire -known working CDI Anything else I should try before pulling the flywheel? ![]() ⚠️ Last edited by mor_ on UTC; edited 1 time
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, PX200 O tuned, PX181 M1XL, PX125 O tuned and some motorbikes
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Ossessionato
![]() 79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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Clean looking machine! Nice find!
And like Jack said, unplug the green wire, the outer-most one in the CDI... |
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![]() '74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) 125 Super '72 DanMotor 150 Super and '04 Bajaj LML hybrid
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As far as checking the stator electrically without pulling the flywheel if you've already pulled the green kill wire from your CDI, I think I've seen posted up here in the past some ohm meter values for the red and white wires... I know the green one from the stator will flash a small LED and must be the trigger that comes from the Hall effect sensor.
I think I will go down and see what resistance red and white have on the working Ducati aftermarket setup I have easy access to now ... |
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![]() 73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special,, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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What they said and you could do a visual inspection of the wires underneath the plastic junction box where it enters the motor. See if it's crusty there.
If you have a multimeter, check the resistance values and compare them to what I posted on the "stator values wiki" thread via the search function. After that, just pull the flywheel and see what you're doing.
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![]() '74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) 125 Super '72 DanMotor 150 Super and '04 Bajaj LML hybrid
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My random aftermarket setup on Super 150 motor which sparks reliably -
![]() Green: no continuity* White: close to zero ohms on my antique analog meter But Red gave me this: about 125 ohms * but MJ P200 got 495 ohms on green here ??? Stator Values Wiki |
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Tried disconnecting the green wire that goes to the frame. No luck.
Also found a sheared wire while troubleshooting with MJ Rally (inside was sheared and outer casing was mostly intact). Soldered it back together and still no spark -rats. Have a multimeter and flywheel puller on order so I can go to the next steps of troubleshooting. ![]() ![]() |
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Wires coming out of stator;
Green and white; 500 ohms plus or minus 20. Red and white; 110 ohms plus or minus 5. Green is the cdi charge coil, red is the hall-effect trigger. White should have perfect continuity with the engine case. White is ground for the CDI and stator plate, as well as the pigtail coming off of the cdi unit. ![]() from service manual
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Thank you for the good info markos!
Red and white resistance looks good at 111 ohms. Could not get a reading for green and white. This leads me to believe the green wire is the issue. Flywheel puller on the way from Mercato. Guess next step is to visually inspect the stator and take it from there.
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Got my flywheel pulled off and was able to verify a bad green coil (thanks Mackgerk for the flywheel holder!)
MJRally loaned me a spare stator so I could work on getting the scooter operational while scooter Mercato rebuilds the stator (thanks man!) The good news! This thing runs strong. The bad news - it wasn't kicking over so gave it a push start and dumped the clutch. Scooter proceeded to wheelie and drag me down the street before it fell over. I've done this lots of times on my v90 but the 200 is a different animal. Damage to the scooter is pretty minor but I've got some road rash and feel like an idiot ![]()
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mor_ wrote: Got my flywheel pulled off and was able to verify a bad green coil (thanks Mackgerk for the flywheel holder!) MJRally loaned me a spare stator so I could work on getting the scooter operational while scooter Mercato rebuilds the stator (thanks man!) The good news! This thing runs strong. The bad news - it wasn't kicking over so gave it a push start and dumped the clutch. Scooter proceeded to wheelie and drag me down the street before it fell over. I've done this lots of times on my v90 but the 200 is a different animal. Damage to the scooter is pretty minor but I've got some road rash and feel like an idiot ![]() |
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Any scooter ride that doesn't involve a tow truck or a stop at the Emergency Room is a good ride in my book.
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Now i'm going slow and checking everything over before the next test ride. Carb slide was stuck at wide open (even with grip rotated to the idle position). No wonder i got launched bump starting it
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![]() '74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) 125 Super '72 DanMotor 150 Super and '04 Bajaj LML hybrid
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Could be overtightened carb bolt, look here for more info & cure: Pinched my carb slid
![]() I'm betting that your carb does not have this notch like newer carbs have to avoid pinching the slide. |
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Thank you Voodoo. The carb is indeed warped and rocks side to side on a piece of glass. And The slide works smoothly now that it's unbolted!
I'm thankful I pulled the carb because there was a tiny washer hiding under the carb gasket. Could have avoided more problems down the road if it got sucked into the engine. Now to go carefully sand down the arb body on a piece of glass ⚠️ Last edited by mor_ on UTC; edited 1 time
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Style Maven
![]() '74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) 125 Super '72 DanMotor 150 Super and '04 Bajaj LML hybrid
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Well that is good news and it explains a lot. I'll assume that you've fixed all this by now, it purrs like a kitten and you will post up some nice rolling shots shortly!
Your crash damage is thankfully minor, I've done worse but just not to such a nice looking bike. ![]() |
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Did someone say "done worse to a nice looking bike?"
I gotcha, fam! ![]() That was me losing my grip on the clutch immediately after installing the motor in my GL and running it into a tree. It happens, ya sort it out and ride on. ![]()
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Ossessionato
![]() 79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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Thanks for the encouragement chandlerman -that sounds so similar to what happened to me.
I feel slightly better knowing the carb was stuck at WOT - explains so much And yeah! Gotta stay safe (as possible) and ride on while we can! |
Molto Verboso
![]() Wrecked '61 VNB '65 Allstate '74 Rally 200
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Boy I'm late to the party; I didn't realize you'd started a thread, man.
We need to get these 200's of ours up n running, go for a ride! |
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![]() Wrecked '61 VNB '65 Allstate '74 Rally 200
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I got your leg shield crimper, bruh
![]() Well, technically… it's voodoo's… but obsession is 9/10 of the law…
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Thanks Voodoo for sending the legshield tool and Mac for handing it off on my way up to Portland! And yeah - totally need to set up a spring ride!
I got pretty far with just a soft jaw clamp and homemade wooden dollies, but having the right tool makes so much difference. ![]() Before.. ouch, crunched right on the rear brake lever
![]() During..
![]() After.. needs some new trim but not looking too bad. Almost like it never happened… but I'll never forget that one :facepalm:
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Carb warping is sorted thanks to some tips from Voodoo. Now I'm chasing an air leak somewhere. Runs good with choke out, but bogs at half throttle and idle screw doesn't change the idle speed much.
![]() Lapping setup
![]() Lapped carb. This fixed the stuck slide
![]() Corroded airbox base
![]() Lapped airbox. Hope this fixes the air leak (fingers crossed) - have not had a chance to test yet
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Posting up a few more photos to share -and track the progress (or lack there of
![]() The air box was not the leak culprit, but I'm glad I took it off and cleaned it up because there was some corrosion in/near the oil injection channel. The airbox was the last "easy" leak source to check - so it was on to checking seals and the crank case. With the voodoo tool library a bit out of driving range, I took a detour to build a couple things to make this hobby easier. 1) engine stand. Thought I could cobble one together faster than one would ship to me- I was wrong on that estimation 2) pressure tester. I looked through a lot of inventive designs on here and ended up incorporating a few different ideas into my design. I'm gonna change the Y-fitting to a T-fitting because accessing the bolts is a bit hard. Plastic cutting board made a great material because fittings thread right into it! Was able to trace the leak to the flyside seal with the pressure tester. I ended up splitting the cases because I've always wanted to, but never had a reason -and because Macgerk loaned me his crankpuller 'just in case' I need it. Guess I couldn't resist letting a cool tool go unused so now I'm gonna replace all the seals and gaskets. This definitely feels like a milestone in this hobby hahaha. ![]() ![]() Engine stand - holds 1 engine for 6 weeks (and counting)
![]() Pressure test - holds 0psi for 0 minutes
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Style Maven
![]() '74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) 125 Super '72 DanMotor 150 Super and '04 Bajaj LML hybrid
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Nice work there, you really are diving in deep. And props on your clever wooden motor support, I know the deluxe collapsible steel one I got from Ray8 makes motor building so much easier. But your primitive stand does much the same thing and anybody could make one like it without a welder or machine shop on hand.
![]() ![]() Simple but sturdy |
Molto Verboso
![]() Wrecked '61 VNB '65 Allstate '74 Rally 200
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mor_ wrote: This definitely feels like a milestone in this hobby hahaha. You've just gone from this guy: ![]() To this guy: ![]() |
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Thanks Mac and Voodoo!
-- I've got a question about the kickstart o-ring. I had a slight drip before disassembly and want to resolve the problem. Looks like the "official" o-ring size is 21mm OD x 2.5mm thick (I've got a 21mm OD x 2.4mm thick o-ring on hand) Both o-rings i have look the same and neither sit proud of the kickstart hole groove. is this right? seems like it should be hugging the kickstart rod. I ordered a legit 21mm OD x 2.5mm one from mercato + a 21mm OD x 3.0mm thick one from amazon to test. But i'd rather start putting the engine back together if the one i have on hand will work. |
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Hooked
PX232, Super221, Rat PX200, Rally 210, GL150
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Hooked
![]() PX232, Super221, Rat PX200, Rally 210, GL150
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mor_ wrote: Thanks Mac and Voodoo! -- I've got a question about the kickstart o-ring. I had a slight drip before disassembly and want to resolve the problem. Looks like the "official" o-ring size is 21mm OD x 2.5mm thick (I've got a 21mm OD x 2.4mm thick o-ring on hand) Both o-rings i have look the same and neither sit proud of the kickstart hole groove. is this right? seems like it should be hugging the kickstart rod. I ordered a legit 21mm OD x 2.5mm one from mercato + a 21mm OD x 3.0mm thick one from amazon to test. But i'd rather start putting the engine back together if the one i have on hand will work. |
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![]() 73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special,, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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Just opened 4 different packs of gaskets/ o rings. All different brands. Got 2.5, 2.55, 2.59 and 2.9mm for the kickstart o rings. Probably worth waiting for the 2.5mm so the 2.4 doesn't compress and leak.
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Wow! Thanks for checking MJ - and great info - i bet others will find it useful also. I'll just do the right thing and wait a few more days.
Stuarttiainen yeah so tempting.. splitting the thing open again for the kickstart o- ring would suck |
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Molto Verboso
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I thought you disconnected the cable at the carb, pulled the outer race back a bit and pushed the guide back into the hole and it would drop out of the pocket in the bottom of the headset. The slot has to be facing upwards.
It's been a hot mini since I did one, so that procedure may need pictures or clarification.
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Thanks AZ for the tip. I got the thing to budge - i somewhat mangled it before i knew about your trick so i'm gonna wait to fully remove it until i have a new one in hand.
Completed the engine rebuild many weeks back and had a successful run in the stand - finally carved out some time to put the engine back in the frame. ![]() This really is the easiest way to solo engine swap. Thanks Voodoo! Get enough blankets and pillows and laying the bike over is no big deal.
![]() Back on 2 wheels, but not quite ready to ride -at least some progress to share. The tasks are smaller now so i can tackle some on lunch breaks.
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Haha yep. Been loving the Haynes manual -mainly for the exploded views. I will say modern Vespa is a much better resource for most else
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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mor_ wrote: Been loving the Haynes manual -mainly for the exploded views. Gotta love those super-helpful detailed instructions like, "Measure clearance and if out of specifications, refresh the unit."
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Quote: I look at the Haynes manual for comic relief ![]() |
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Feels like I'm finally on the home stretch with this project!
Was struggling hard with the fuel line and couldn't remember it being this bad so I measured it and it shrank almost 2 inches over the winter! - switched to the black rubber kind and I'll keep the old one for my testing bottle. Almost forgot the transmission oil because it had been so long since I finished putting the engine together. Just need to confirm autolube is working with and do final adjustments on the gear shift cables. ![]() Fuel line shrank over the winter
![]() (Almost) ready to roll
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