Modern Vespa

top tiergas/additive packages, it's like magnets. how do they work?

I'm only partially kidding...

there are fuel treatments that you add to gas that, in my experience, will yield positive effects when used accordingly. one of these is the Techron fuel treatment (another is seafoam), now does Premium with Techron contain some of the secret 11 herbs and spices in the fuel treatment? probably! maybe! who knows! (it's likely)

but in a day to day world of standard driving, the differences in all the sauces is more likely marketing than unicorn farts that give you .0001% better mileage or power or run cleaner.

Unicorn farts are very very valuable. Think about it

But do they help? Not sure as I've never tested them

The owners manual calls for 91 octane but I usually put Chevron 93 octane in mine mainly because of their well known detergents that they put in their gas. With direct injection engines it's important to have a high quality detergent gasloine. And I have a 2023 GTS 300 Supertech.

They're not nearly as interesting as you'd think. DAMHIK.

+1 on Top Tier gas. That's all I use in any of my machines, from lawn mower/tractors to antique tractors, and two cars (and of course, my Vespa). I use it in my small 2-stroke engines, too. Not one gasoline related problem in any of them for many years now.
(I use the Shell high octane in the Vespa.)

So, today I had to fill up. I listened to the owner of the shop and put 89 in there. When questioned the response I got is below. I don't know much, but I know that today I rode 80 miles and it was excellent.

HI James
It's just a recommendation by us because that's what we have seen yield the best results. Fuel is different everywhere and it's diffukt to say that one grade is superior over the other. What you should do is pick a grade and just stick with it and see what works best for you.

So, on that note, I for the first time ever used 89. Great day. Lol

O2 sensors can last along time, I recently replaced one on a vehicle I own, but it did last 220,000 miles. I'm guessing in this case that it was a lousy connection/connector rather than the sensor itself.

My 2 cents
Southern California belief is gas stations have a 87 octane tank and a 91 octane tank and to get 89 octane both are blended at the pump to deliver 89.
91 octane is in my gt200 along with nitrous and never a single fuel problem in 28,000 miles.

I flat-out do not believe that.

Back in the day, Sunoco stations offered 6 grades of gas. They had only two in-ground tanks, and mixed the two grades to get the intermediate octane levels. Since that system was around for some years, it probably wasn't a scam. Considering that I drove nothing but old clunkers back then, I got their cheapest gas.

I can remember when gas was 23.9¢/gallon, and the stations up and down the street would have "gas wars" to see who could sell their gas the cheapest. Good Times! I could fill up my Honda Cub for all of 18¢ and ride all week!

From Google: "Sunoco even operated its Custom-Blended pumps from 1958 through 1972, allowing customers to choose the octane their engine needed."

I just may be half right

Since that was before Al Gore invented the internet how did they know what their engine needed?

One can only hope that they read the owner's manual

I read the manuals because I think of it as "cheating", instead of learning the hard way.

Well, rather than over thinking it - I just put 89 in the tank. Been using it for two tanks now as I rode 200+ miles this past weekend. All's good.

I am switching shops for my next service and it will be interesting to see what that owner says!!

Top Tier gas here is exactly the same price as that sold by grocery stores snd bait shops.
No reason not to seek it out....not that it's hard to find.
Now - fresh nightcrawlers are HTF.
O.S.

a lot of bait stores in the heart of this city of 5+ million

Fresh or not-so-fresh, those are going to clog up your fuel pump big time. Consume as much ethanol as possible before dropping those into your system.

After all the chatter and back and forth about grades of fuel, I again questioned the dealer as to why they suggested I start using 89. The answer was based on my issues that I had with fuel pumps etc. it was their recommendation to use 89 based on my bike's history needing two fuel pump replacements.

I did not realize that it really doesn't matter.......that my bike would run on 89 or 91 just fine. I was nervous about all the talk about it must be 91 or else. I thought I was doing some sort of harm to my engine.

Anyway, alls well. have a good day all

The grade of fuel you're using has nothing to do with fuel pump failures. What your dealer told you is bullshit.

He said it's just another way of thinking I guess he said there are "two schools of thought" -

I am confused too……I will use 89 as per their suggestion - runs fine…… i'm 300 miles away from another service, which I'll take somewhere else. I'll just see what they say next. Ha ha.

find another place to have your bike serviced.

or buy some hip waders, because that bullshit is deep.

Well, if 89 gas solves your problem, all's good. And don't change your dealer, just take what they say with a grain of salt.

I can't see any way a fuel pump could see a slight difference in the composition of the two grades of gasoline.

Not the octane, but possibly the additive package.

("Gasoline grade" is not wholly interchangeable with "Octane rating". It's a subtle distinction.)

Found this online in the UK, SHELLS premium V Power Guarantee.

*A Compared to the previous generation Shell V-Power.

*B Removes and protects from the build up of performance robbing deposits on key fuel system components such as intake valves and/or fuel injectors. Cleanliness and engine performance recovery demonstrated using industry standard and Shell proprietary tests. Actual effects and benefits may vary according to vehicle type, vehicle age, vehicle condition and driving style. No guarantees provided.

*C Removes and protects from the build up of performance robbing deposits on key fuel system components such as intake valves and/or fuel injectors. Improved fuel economy using Shell V-Power fuels has been demonstrated in industry standard and Shell proprietary tests. Actual effects and benefits may vary according to vehicle type, vehicle age, vehicle condition and driving style. No guarantees provided.

*D Compared to Shell's FuelSave Unleaded fuel. Actual effects and benefits may vary according to vehicle type, vehicle condition and driving style. Helps to protect key fuel system components such as intake valves and fuel injectors from the build up of performance robbing deposits. Friction reducing molecules help critical parts of your engine. No guarantees provided.

*E Removes and protects from the build up of performance robbing deposits on key fuel system components such as intake valves and/or fuel injectors. Cleanliness and engine performance recovery demonstrated using industry standard and Shell proprietary tests. With continuous use of Shell V-Power from the first full tank fill. Actual effects and benefits may vary according to vehicle type, vehicle age, vehicle condition and driving style. No guarantees provided.

*F Compared to Shell's FuelSave Unleaded fuel. Actual effects and benefits may vary according to vehicle type, vehicle condition and driving style. Helps to protect key fuel system components such as intake valves and fuel injectors from the build up of performance robbing deposits. Friction reducing molecules help critical parts of your engine. No guarantees provided.

*G Helps to protect the EGR system from the build up of deposits. Based on Shell proprietary methods. Actual effects and benefits may vary according to vehicle type, vehicle condition and driving style. No guarantees provided.

*J Helps to clean and protect key fuel system components such as fuel injectors from the build up of performance robbing deposits. Shell V-Power Diesel compared with previous generation Shell V-Power Diesel and compared with typical market average deposit levels. Actual effects and benefits may vary according to vehicle type, vehicle condition and driving style. No guarantees provided.

*K Measured using industry standard ASTM D665. Actual effects and benefits may vary. No guarantees provided.


Obviously after each paragraph they have to quote "No guarantees provided" to protect against law suits.
Cheers.

He wasn't suggesting that is why it failed. It's just a suggestion……..he said with all the pump failures (sometimes like mine more than once same bike) when people switch to 89 it doesn't come back to the shop / maybe superstition…who knows

He wasn't saying it's black and white and that's exactly why just merely a way of thinking as of late

I just filled up at Caltex and paid more attention than usual. They have regular and premium. There's nothing at the pump to tell you what the octane rating is. I guess I could've asked the bloke behind the counter for advice.

But that isn't how knowledge is gleaned. You don't have to be a research administrator at a major university to know categorically that such a statement is utterly worthless. You might just as well suggest that one switches spark plug wires or socks. As suspicious as I am of Top Tier gas, even that makes more sense. You have to at least put forth a theory, and then test it repeatedly to make such a statement. Plus, even such a ridiculous "suggestion " by itself would be harmless enough. It's the fact that you're hearing such BS from the dealer who has spent more time with your scoot than you have that's most vexing. I see a correlation between the two things.

As I mentioned, I am thinking about switching shops.....I am 300 miles away from my 8000 service ... There are others around.....I liked these guys since it's where I bought my bike and they're the #1 dealership in the country.

I think them making the suggestion about me putting 89 in there isn't that big of a deal - It was made to me the the owner of the business. A man that looks as if he is in his 70's who has been building these machines his entire life - the shop is in a big city and has a really great reputation.

I equate his suggestion to like an old school thought - like hey try 89 - kind of like someone saying throw some pepper in that sauce for good luck. I dunno -

I would not even contemplate switching dealers, however, all the negativity I am receiving about them on this website is making me second guess it.

There is a new Vespa dealer in NY but they are in Clifton Park which is probably 2 hrs from you.

Have you considered doing your own maintenance?

There's a Vespa dealer in White Plains too - NY Powersports. They've done tire and exhaust work for me and were a sponsor of the NYC Vespa Club for a while. Can't speak to anything more involved than that.

fixed that for you

LOL. In 2020, they were #1 in the COUNTRY. It's all good. Thx for your responses.

Yes, if I switch - that is where I might go. It's an easier ride for me than the two bridges, two states and 4 county ride I have home from Brooklyn.

Hey! Thanks for the suggestion. I know where Clifton Park is. It's a tad too far for me to be able to drop off and pick-up etc.

Have I thought about doing my own maintenance? HELL NO. I know what I am good at.....and anything handy/mechanical is just not for me. I will leave that up to the experts. I am 49, and at this stage of the game I just own it. I can cook a 5 course meal for 15 people without an issue, close three real estate deals in one day and play a mean game of ping pong but I cant fix anything for SHI%. It's a joke at my house - If there is a handy man there installing a ceiling fan, my wife will make sure I know that so I do not come home to it - since even though I own it and know I cant do it, it is still slightly embarrassing.

I had an ET4 for 15 years. I bought it at Vespa SOHO in NYC which is long gone. I moved up to Rockland and there was a great shop nearby in NJ but that's long gone too. They did everything on my ET4. The ONE thing I tried to do involved an electric screwdriver and a tail light. I screwed directly into the gas tank and at that moment I just laughed. What was I thinking?

oh i know why now, Ca was so hard locked down they would not let anybody out of their houses and NY was still somewhat semi open early on so their sales carried them to the top spot for the year. A FLUKE.

Plus all those people buying new scooters because their old one spontaneously developed holes in their pistons.

Hahaha - probably

that only means they sold a lot of bikes.

McDonald's sells a lot of burgers, that doesn't mean they're good restaurant.

I miss my small local dealer that I had when I rode my ET4 - went out of business

I agree with you Mr. Greasy. Bigger isn't always better.

I do like a Big Mac sometimes, but I feel like shit shortly after