Modern Vespa

Light G is called Engine control warning light.
Yesterday, rode 75 miles to lunch with Vespa Ft Meyers club to Everglades City. Fun ride and good lunch. We fueled up and rode home on a 60-65 mph highway.

I noticed light G was on. It was on but dim. I see now just after starting it is bright.

I did not stop.

Today I rechecked the oil and it was at the full mark. Bile has 1600 miles. Never uses oil.

Checked coolant level. Just a bit low. Added about 100ml. I added that much a few months ago.

Light G is no longer on after starting. Haven't gone on a ride yet.

I think there is an OBD READER for Vespa. Wonder what code it would show? My dealer is not far. I suppose I should take it in during warranty. Dah.

Don't say you've ridden it with the light on. You're meant to pull over immediately when safe to do so and switch off the engine. They can use that info to refuse a warranty claim.

Good that the fluids are all ok.

What year is the Vespa?

Losing coolant isn't good, it should be a sealed system. Do you ever see any drips?

It's a 2022 and under warranty. I thought I read that topping off coolant was common. Pretty sure that no less than Robot said that.

I have not seen and drips or leaks.

I've ordered a OBD2 code reader just to see what it says.

If your dealer is not far away and the scooter is under warranty I would go to that dealer and have it checked for error codes.

One thing is strange: you say: "light G was on. It was on but dim".

A light should be bright on (like when you switch on the ignition upto a few seconds after starting the engine), or not on, but not dim. Dim could point to a problem in the electrical circuit somewhere. (you are sure it cannot have been a reflection of the sun on the dash?)

I think it is safe to drive the scooter, since the engine control warning light did not kept lit after starting the engine. Meaning whatever error there may have been it is no longer present now.

Nah. It's the check engine light, and could be on for a variety of reasons, none of them likely to be fatal. It's the check engine light, not the temperature light. The two aren't related.

Use a voltmeter or multimeter to check your charging voltage when the engine is running. A failing or defective voltage regulator will cause that and it's quite common.

Charging voltage should be around 13.6V to 14.2V and not be higher than 14.5V.

VR problem will cause CEL to go on but around 3k rpm and then go off below that. So you need to rev to 3k rpm while checking battery voltage.

The CEL won't light up for fluids. Could be a number of reasons, over charging, lamda sensor, bad connections, bad fuel, etc. Since it's under warranty, have the dealer connect their diag and read whatever is saved in the ECU…

My OBD2 reader arrives tomorrow (Oct 11). I'll read what codes if any are there. Then I'll call the dealer.

I'll wait until I see the codes before I measure the voltage.

OK, keep us posted.

You said you had refueled. Possibly got some fuel in the evap system.

I use the Scooter West funnel to fill up and haven't had a spill since. Its lovely.
But sometimes I have trouble getting my gas cap threaded straight but always fiddle with it until it's correct, except this time. The group was rolling out and I had to hurry. Maybe the gas cap was not fully threaded. I'm not sure! Maybe that would throw a code.

Hopefully the OBD2 code reader clears up the mystery soon.

I use the funnel also and it does make a difference. I also have trouble sometimes getting the cap to go back on straight. I haven't quite figured out why that is. It seems to be worse when the engine is hot.

Please keep us informed about what you find out.

The light came on shortly after you fueled up. I bet you overfilled and clogged the EVAP system. This is very easy to do and if you are like me happens half of the time. If this is the case the light will go away in a few days once it dries out. If you put a code reader on it it will throw a code about the O2 sensor. It may run a little rough till the light goes out because the EVAP system also vents to the exhaust side of the motor before the O2 sensor. When the sensor see this it thinks the motor is running too rich (throws a O2 code)and tells the ECU to send less fuel causing the scooter to run rough. I seem to notice this happening much more often on the newer GTS than on the older. Just buy pass the system or remove the whole thing like I did. Doing this will also stop the mooing after a ride. Most likely the code was PO130

Very interesting. Hope to see the code today. If overfill means gas spills over top of filler pipe at the end of fueling, that stopped happening when I started using the threaded funnel from Scooter West. Prevents it every time. Scooter did not run rough. Light went out the next day. Hope to see the codes today 10/11. Thanks!

https://www.scooterwest.com/fuel-funnel-all-modern-vespa-most-piaggio.html

Mine only ran rough once and that was it for me I did the removal. I think I will put that funnel on my wish list and get it on my next order. Thanks

Vespabrian,

We are almost neighbors! Perpetual summer!

I put off buying the funnel but it's worth the money. No more overflows!

So Vespa Brian wins.

Just plugged in the BlueDriver sensor $85 Amazon and cable $9.95.

Got the report below. Very quick and easy. Free app on my IPhone.

Report below. Also works on my Audi but haven't tried it yet.

So now what? Check engine light no longer on. I'll call the dealer but I'm not too worried

Your next step is bypass or remove EVAP system. You could also do nothing and know if it comes on soon after an overfill you are ok.

I am actually close to you this weekend in Bradenton Beach for the Tampa 2 Strokes scooter club rally at Tortuga Inn.

If you decide to remove or bypass Peter from the Sarasota club has done it before I think. He may be able to assist or make a trip up to Lakeland and I will do it with you.

I'm generally a proponent of removing the evap system. But at this point, with only one code having happened the one time, I'd just let it be and see if it happens again. It's not going to spontaneously explode or anything.

(Probably).

I think it's a semi-pressurized cooling system.
I've had a drop or two weep from the coolant bottle cap but the only time I've had to top off coolant (in a years time and 3000 miles) was when I had a coolant leak at the LR floor area hose connection, I think this is a common area to have a leak from and it may go unnoticed if it's small as it leaks out the left underbody area and gets blown out the back and dries from the wind while riding.

Maybe it's the ole banana in the tailpipe oops wrong movie
gas in the evap cannister?

Called the dealer, Vespa Naples. Described o2 sensor and coolant top off. They said no worries. Monitor if code continues or coolant requires more top off. Over and out.

That's what I shall do. Thanks everybody.

OBD2 reader picture plus cable. Also worked on my Audi.

Billrush is convinced that he did not overfill the fuel tank. He said earlier: "I use the Scooter West funnel to fill up and haven't had a spill since. Its lovely."

So why did the alarm then pop up?

"Alarm" is, I think, an unnecessarily urgent term for what happened. The Check Engine Light alerts you when some parameter in the ECU is out of range. If the OP wants to rip his evap system out, then go ahead. I am simply going on record as believing that such action is premature when there has been exactly one code thrown.

Furthermore, there are lots of ways that gas can make it into the evap system. Filling up with the funnel is not going to defend against all or even most of them.

I'm with Jess. I'm in no hurry to pull out the Evap system because I don't think it's giving me any problems yet. Let's see if or when I get additional codes.

I'm still under warranty. Does removing the evap system void the warranty?

Probably not, but that depends entirely on whether any subsequent warranty claims are related to the evap system being disconnected

The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act generally prevents a manufacturer from voiding a warranty because of unrelated changes (i.e. aftermarket parts). However, if the manufacturer can demonstrate that the defect being claimed under warranty was directly related to something you did to the vehicle, then they would have a valid case to deny your warranty claim.

In other words, if you put aftermarket mirrors on the bike, the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act would prevent the manufacturer from denying a warranty claim on the engine, as they are unrelated.

The evap system, though, could be viewed as an integral component of the engine. I don't personally think it is, but a manufacturer might try to make a case for that.

My BV does not have an EVAP system, and I have no idea if it is mandatory on today sold scooters here in the EU.
But maybe it is or will be in the near future and then it is good to learn from the experience of you guys.

Overfilling, I can understand. Where else would that fuel have to go.
But if not overfilled there is in my view no reason for liquid fuel ever to get to this EVAP system. It only needs a valve that can make the distinction between a fluid and a gas.

In 2012, the EVAP system was only found on North American bikes, and that was only to satisfy California emission standards.

Nowadays, I think it's quite a bit more widespread, but I don't know to what extent.

(I'm not positive that it wasn't more widespread by 2012, either -- but there was a period around then where the EVAP system was just a North American thing). There are some important differences here between a BV and a GTS. On a BV, the tank is in the floor, and the EVAP system is actually above the tank.

On a GTS, the tank is near the top of the bike, and the EVAP system sits well below the fuel filler neck. Additionally, the engine is below the tank, with the tank wrapping around the seat bucket.

Gasoline expands with heat. On a warm day, a full tank of cold, dense gasoline can easily expand enough to reach the top of the filler neck. On a GTS, gravity will then take it back down into the EVAP system.

The same goes for a full tank of cold, dense gasoline put into a hot bike (i.e. just off of doing a highway run) and then immediately parked. And because of the placement of the GTS tank vs. the engine, all that heat from the engine radiates straight into the tank.

(Another way is via tipover, of course -- but I suspect OP would have noticed that).

Oh, and about that valve: yes, there is a valve. No, it's not very reliable. If it was reliable, then you wouldn't have so many people ripping out their EVAP systems. Clearly, gasoline is getting into the charcoal canisters in spite of the valve.

I did not have the comparison between the BV and the GTS in mind, but now that you mention it.

With the fuel tank in the floor it is not likely liquid fuel from the tank will end up in the higher positioned EVAP-system, but on the other hand I was wondering where overfilled fuel on a BV is going? It will not flow spontaneously upwards to the EVAP system.

Exactly. I don't know how non-EVAP BVs are set up, but I would expect that the overflowing fuel would just be expelled on the ground via an overflow tube. You could probably verify this on your bike if you were motivated.

Heat-expanded fuel can still flow upwards, however. Whether it will reach (or affect) an EVAP system on a BV is something I do not know.

For non-EVAP BV's it is simple: indeed fuel simply drips to the ground if you overfill. I had that once. That was in the very beginning when I had the BV. Of course I did not like that: it is a waste of fuel and money.

I expect that recent BV's in the US have an EVAP system. So my question was referring to BV's with an EVAP system: where does the fuel go if you overfill?

It's a fine question, but I still don't know the answer.

I ordered a CNC gas Cap. 1. I like red. 2. It was $8.23. 3. I thought it might thread on better.

I have no idea why, but it does thread much better.

One month later, the check engine light has never returned.

Excellent news!