Modern Vespa

Hi guys.

I have been riding Vespa ET4 150cc (carb, not fuel injected) for a long time. It now has new problems, so I am looking around for a next scooter.

I have several opinion questions.

1) After getting used to 150cc, will it be a disappointment getting a 50cc scooter? Even with 150cc, I don't like to speed (90% of my city commute limits to 15-25 mph) but once in a while, after a red light, I do enjoy peeling off. And that 150cc LEADER engine does feel like an animal growling when I pull the throttle. On mine, I use Malossi variator with mid weight for better torque (sacrificed top speed), and for the rear clutch I use mid tension Malossi springs (set of 3 springs) so that the rear wheel won't engage until slightly higher RPM than the stock configuration.

2) Has anyone switched from Vespa to Honda or Yamaha scooter (50cc, 125cc, 150cc)? Are there big differences in quality of ride, feel and vibration of engines, stock suspensions, nimbleness, ...

Are there obvious differences (better or worse?) in construction of bikes and quality of parts used?

Vespa engine (piaggio) is very reliable. But everything else is not so reliable (ex voltage regulator, stator, starter motor, fuel tap, under body rusts, rubber intake manifold cracking, front disk brake caliper seizing, front and rear shocks, front hub ball bearing coming apart because Piaggio uses non sealed bearings, odometer cable keeps snapping inside, almost all exposed nuts and bolt on Vespa are prone to seizing...

But I do appreciate that ET4 150 (carbureted) comes with vacuum actuated fuel tap, auto choke, and carb heater. I have yet to find a small engine scooter or motorcycle other than Vespa & Piaggio with carb heater!

3) Has anyone switched from Vespa (metal frame) to Piaggio (non metal frame) models like Liberty or older Fly? Even though my current ET4 is old, when I go over small bumps and cracks on road, everything still feels very solid. One youtube described it as a "luxurious feel."


In general, Honda & Yamaha & Piaggio (non metal body frame models), how much of the ride quality will I be giving up going from Vespa metal body to non metal body? On my Vespa, plastic panels that are held by metal screws, over time, the screws don't hold very well (metal screws are biting and eating away at plastic bases). I know someone who test rode used Piaggio BV250 for a potential purchase. I highly recommended it to him. After a test ride, the first thing he mentioned was that all plastic body parts were loose & making vibrational noises and distracted from ride quality! He didn't buy it.


You experiences and inputs are appreciated. In short, after owning a Vespa (metal body), would you change to Honda or Yamaha or Piaggio (non metal body)?

1) Honestly I think you'll regret the downgrade from a 150 to a 50. Mayyyyybe if you went with a two stroke 50cc it wouldn't be as bad, you might still be able to squeeze 50 mph out of it... but a lot of four stroke 50s will only get you to about 37 mph.

As with all things top speed on small displacement bikes, it isn't really about the actual top speed as much as it is about having power available to accelerate when you're already at speed.

Some people will say "you don't need to ride fast if you ride smart" ... but sometimes danger has a funny way of finding its way to us, and it's nice to be able to twist the throttle and get away... with a 50cc four stroke, you significantly lose your ability to do so.


2) I had a couple KYMCO scooters. Mostly Super 9 Liquid Cooled (50cc two strokes). Those were fun! Zippy for a 50cc. I've done some longer rides here and there on KYMCO's maxi scooters and never cared for them. Can't help you with the japanese stuff, sorry.

3) It's really going to depend on how that scoot has been maintained. When I used to have a tech working for me we didn't even bother with sport bikes because of how many of them had fairings refitted haphazardly, and once you took them off you would spend forever trying to put them back on again. It just wasn't worth it. I'm sure most of the bikes we turned away were fine, but the few that weren't would have been terribly annoying so it just wasn't worth it. Not every dollar is worth chasing.

Likewise, not every plastic faired bike that saves you a lot of money is worth the savings, however, plenty of them are, you'll need a case by case basis to decide. In general look for lower mileage, minimal or no signs of accidents, and a quality name brand, and things should feel okay.

Buy for what you will use it for and what fits you. The Liberty 150 is a good machine, a few on here can attest to that. Yamaha used to have a SMax model, 155cc, very good machine. Honda has their PCX - again very good machine. And don't count out scoots from Taiwan - Kymco and the Genuine. I personally would not want a 50cc machine as it limits you on speed and power.

Short answer first: You know you're comparing apples to oranges, don't you? A Vespa isn't like a Yamaha in more ways than the material the body is made of. Nor is a Yamaha quite like a Honda...

Anyway, here are some of my observations:

1) You will be disappointed in a 50cc after riding a 150, if only in the 10% of the time you're not commuting at 25 mph. Plus, you'll soon see the limitations of a 50 any time you're accelerating in traffic, or going up hills.

2) I regularly switch between my 2019 Vespa Primavera 150 and my 2011 Yamaha Zuma 125. I really see little difference in the way they ride and handle. The Vespa may have a little smoother ride overall, is all. They both have 12" wheels; they take bumps about the same, and handle about the same. The Vespa's engine is a bit quieter. Neither of them have loose, vibrating parts; they're solidly built. I've had no reliability issues with the Vespa -- but it's relatively new. Time will tell. The only issue, other than ordinary wear and tear in 43,000 miles with the Zuma, was a rocker arm that broke. That was a very rare fluke, I think. Because they're both fuel injected, I've never had to clean a carburetor. They just start when I get them out of storage in the Spring.

3) I can also compare my metal Vespa to my plastic Piaggio BV350. Apart from the obvious difference in size, they are a lot alike -- with a few big differences.

I'd say the quality of materials and assembly is good with both of them. The BV is still solid and doesn't rattle and shake -- despite missing a few fasteners here and there that have fallen out of the plastic panels. I've had it apart several times for maintenance and modifications, and it's ten years old and has 41,000 miles on it. If there's one big drawback to the BV's plastic skin it's that there's so much of it that has to be removed for servicing. (Oil changes aren't bad, but coolant, brake fluid, etc are a pain.)


So, in summary, I don't feel there are inherent advantages or problems with metal bodies vs. plastic. But the scooters I have are all different from each other in so many other ways, it's maybe not fair to compare them.

Whatever you decide to get, ride safe & have fun!

Yes there are big differences in quality of ride, feel and vibration of engine, suspension, etc. If you think your ET4 is quick, a modern liquid cooled 150 from Japan might seem too fast.

The new Japanese 150cc scooters have engines that were designed in the 21st century, the Honda engine is less than four years old. A lot has happened since Piaggio designed the leader in the late 1990s.

JKJ-FZ6 has a pretty solid analysis. I personally know him and know he has driven many different scooters. I would not go down from 150cc to 50cc.

Bob Copeland

50cc is painfully slow. Slow acceleration and 38mph top end. Even if I never went over 38, I'd still want a 150.

If you can get your hands on an Aprilia SR MT where you are you should do so. Carby Leader 125 with a light body and 14" wheels make it a ton of fun to ride. I recently upgraded to a Piaggio Medley 150 but the Aprilia was more fun.

We had the Typhoon 125 for a while here. I'm not sure if Piaggio is still bringing it, but it's about as close as you are going to come to the Aprilia SR motard in a 125 here.

ahh ....

non metal frame? really?

My 11 yr old 163cc a/cooled Kymco is brisker off the line than is my 7yr old Liberty 155cc a/c.
Both are in top form, both EFI.
Both have been utterly reliable.
Both top out @59mph*
O.S.

*At my 265lbs, 6'3".....both scooters think I'm Asian, riding 2-up🙃

Wheels will likely make a large difference. Some of the Vespas have smaller diameter, but much chunkier tyres - which is good for grip but maybe does worse on rough roads.

The Liberty has much larger wheels, but skinnier tyres.

I think the drop to a 50cc will be too extreme, but I'd expect a modern day Primavera / Sprint to be an evolution of the ET4. The 12" wheels will also likely still be a bit larger than your ET4?

Also be careful comparing peak hp ratings. I've got a 2022 Vespa Sprint, and was surprised how slow the ET4 was in comparison.

On a long road with a much skinnier friend on an ET4, I kept pulling away to the point that I had to pull over and wait for him to catch up.

I changed up from a 50cc and found the extra amount of power can get you out of situations on the road and be a far safer way of riding.

Bluejeep,

I agree completely. The ability to pull yourself out a tight spot can be life saving.

Side story: Years ago, I lived in Italy with the somewhat notorious Italian drivers who with exuberance drove with great abandonment and no apparent regard for rules of the road. Nothing negative about Italians - I love them, It just is, what it is. In another posting thread, we could discuss why they are so colorful behind he wheel.

To your point, I drove my Ducati motorcycle all over that great country. What kept me safe was speed leading the pack and out of danger. If I could scoot ahead with speed, I could leave behind the pack as they changed lanes aggressively, passed on the left or right even up on side walks, used stop signs as if they are yield signs. Despite this craziness, I kind of enjoyed it in my youth.

Again, agree with you.

Bob Copeland