Modern Vespa

This question inspired me to make a meme tonight.

You are probably right, but I did say developed. I don't know where it originally came from, but all the "official"-ish records I can find online that aren't just posts on scooter forums credit Honda with the design.

Do you know where it actually came from? Legitimate question, because I'm actually curious.

You can find "official"-ish records claiming the 50cc qmb139 version of the GY6 is a clone of the 1980-90s Honda Elite 50cc engine too. There's one big problem with that claim though.
The 50cc and 150cc GY6 engines were not developed by Honda. They were developed in Taiwan, hence the absolute lack of scruples about stealing them. Kymco likely is the inventor of the engine, but SYM and PGO both use the same engine, often with the same sourced parts and part numbers. Or, much like Kawasaki and Suzuki teaming up to share models in the early 2000s, the Taiwanese manufacturers may have developed the motors together.
At no time in their history did Honda create service or parts manuals for the GY6, nor can anyone tell you what Honda models had the GY6 engine in them. Can you think of a single Honda motorcycle or scooter that Honda never made parts or service manuals for?
Kymco has service and parts manuals for the engines going back to the 90s. the Kymco Filly came out first in the late 90s and was likely the original QMB139 scooter, and the body and engine design are the ones that were most commonly stolen by the Chinese companies.
Here is a Kymco Filly. Look familiar?

I'd bet you're right on the kymco-PGO collab

even the Honda elite 80 4T motor doesn't look anything like a qmb/gy6 inside or out for that matter.

*this is not to say that the qmb/gy6 motors are junk, far from it. the kymco and pgo variants are great motors that are extremely well built.

Wake up and smell the coffee. These guys sell scooters all over Connecticut carrying cheapest to outrageous. They stock parts, fix and cover warrantees. With the newest offerings from QJ Motors they are getting bigger all the time. I've talked to them, they know what they're doing and don't discriminate between brands.

https://www.ctscooterpros.com/search/inventory/showroom/125cc%20and%20up%20Scooters/sort/price-low

I'm betting they're not alone.

I honestly can't see it happening.

Sure people are always going to want a cheap Chinese scooter and won't care where it comes from but I'd suggest that established brands such as Benelli and Moto Morini were bought so that their new owners could surf on their Italian heritage because let's face it who really wants a Voge, Lexmoto or a Zontes ?

The latter three make products whose designs are all stolen from other motorcycles which is a bit disappointing but the ignorant and more budget oriented buyer will buy them.

The difference between these and the early Hondas is that the Japanese were making some beautiful motorcycles when they first started out, whereas these designs are just nicked with no shame or apology.

I dunno ... I guess if you squint it MIGHT look a LITTLE like a Vespa. But, the horncast has four slots instead of three, and they're straight, not at all like the Vespa chevron. So, really totally different in appearance.

It's like looking at a totally original concept.

I'm wondering if the Italians had anything to do with it ?

No curry hook. Fail.

Having owned 2 or 3 of those early Hondas back in the day, the other difference was that those bikes were mechanically superb and models of reliability. Something that can not be said for the current crop of Chinascoots.

And the fact that it's called a "Chespa" is - I am sure - simply a coincidence.

I'm not debating that all China scoots are the pinnacle of reliability. Far from it. The "Let's build something quick and dirty and sell it cheap" state of mind is still out there in America. But as the following tells you that might not be true for all of them. I mean, would Phil lie?

I think Genuines are primarily Taiwanese, aren't they?

Good bikes. I have two.

Not the Urbano and the Rattler. Neither are the Royal Alloys. Neither is the G400i motorcycle.They are all Chinese builds.

More "useful" information. What are the odds that someone hawking Chinese scooters has something good to say about them?
Keep digging that hole, and you'll reach the head office before you know it.

Spare me. Phil hawking Chinese scooters is tantamount to you becoming the importer for Shanghai Shenke. He has spit on China scoots for what? Twenty years. Either he's desperate or believes that Genuine is selling a good Chinese product.

Maybe no one else here knows about Phil but you and I do. He's a longtime CCS hater.

More "useful" information. It would appear that anyone who buys a container of scooters can become the importer for Shanghai Shenke. If you post their contact information next time, that might be worth a couple extra yuan.
There are forums where people are actually interested in Chinese scooters. Try junkscooters forum, or chinesecrapontwowheels forum, twowheeldeathtrap forum, brokencrapthatsnotworthfixing forum, scootersthatbreakallthetime forum, motorizedgiftsforpeopleyouhate forum or thingsyouwillpushevenifyoudontwantto forum.

and a hater on vespa, and on kymco, and on pretty much anything that isn't what he's selling.

you know what Phil isn't a hater on? money.

I wish that I'd said that.

The thing that genuinely upsets me most is the legacy of the Italian brands who have now been reduced to building bad copies of better bikes.

It's kind of sad.

By the time we collectively get around to mentioning the word "legacy", it's virtually certain that the subject of our adulation has been reduced to a pale imitation of whatever it used to be.

Ha, fair point.

Hands up whose got a Volvo.

Swedish joke.

Chinese joke.

The LIKE200i was just one of several Kymco models which were commissioned from an Italian design house.
The LIKE was also assembled in China.
While I've only ridden it for 10 years - it has been bullet proof.
(in gun happy Ohio - that's no small trick!)
O.S.

It kinda looks like they have grafted an LX 150 to a Lambretta.

Probably knocked it up on the back of a packet of cigarettes.

Is that the best you've got? Let's review. my 2008 Eagle Bashan Biella from GS Motorworks (Who was bought by Tao Tao because they had a good rep and a parts warehouse) went 10,000 miles in eleven years without requiring a rebuild. I know, that's only 900 miles a year, not enough for you though even though it continued to run up to the day I sold it. And it started every time.

Just remember this. despite your disapproval there are more 50cc Chinese scooters than you can count doing the job every day in this Country and no one is dying because of where they're built. So much so that the only Big four company selling 50cc scooters is Honda. Everyone else gave up.

The experience of one rider who's been riding for decades, doing 900 miles a year, shouldn't even be considered when thinking about the average scooter rider's experience will be like because it's such an outlier situation.

The average person on the 50cc shitbox china bike in my city doesn't have tools, know how, experience, or even a garage to store their bike in.

Does this sound like you? Probably not.

These people are buying these junky scoots thinking they're getting something reliable, and they're suffering because of this deception. They're buying them to deliver uber eats every day, and leaving them parked exposed to the elements every night.

They aren't noticing when things are off/need adjustment/repair/starting to fail because they don't know better. They aren't doing things pre-emptively because they can't, and/or they don't have the resources, and/or, again, they just don't know any better.

Leaving and running their bikes outdoors year round is turning their china bikes to garbage in a matter of a few years because the finishes are so janky. Everything on them rusts prematurely and they leak and weep all over because the china scoots aren't made well enough to handle all the crazy expansion and contraction that comes with being a daily rider in sub-zero climates. The tolerances and standards these things are made to is trash.

So it's very nice that you have the experience and know-how to ride your 900 miles a year, maintain and store your china bikes yourself... but that isn't an accurate reflection of 99.99% of people who buy these things, often just to deliver uber eats or otherwise use them to try to get by. That isn't even close to their reality. Their reality is their bike falling apart within a few years.

And let's be real. A great bike isn't a bike that's great if carefully maintained and cared for. A great bike is a bike that you can daily ride the absolute shit out of, and they're still just as good as new. These chinese bikes can't hack it.

I'd posit that the AF08E in the Elite 80 has more in common with the C70 SuperCub than Honda's other scooter offerings in the early '80s.

As for a Honda influence, Kymco was subcontracted by Honda from '63 through '89. I'd be surprised if some of the engineering didn't bleed over. Oil pumps and valve springs are cross-compatible.

Years? More like weeks.

The Amigo Storm is a 'Scooter Moped that is fuel injected with USB.'

I wonder how the USB injects fuel? I used to have a computer that got mad if I didn't properly eject the USB.

https://taoatv.com/amigo-storm-s-300-scooter-moped-fuel-injected-with-usb/

Kymco built a lot of small scooters for Honda, especially for the EU. The Honda ZX50, which we never got Stateside, is the Kymco ZX50 which was imported in limited numbers into the US. The SYM Jet also has what is pretty much the same engine.

I think the Like was the second kymco bike done in china, with the agility 125 being the first (motovista will likely correct me here). and besides the headlight issues the agility was damn near bomb proof.

the like proves the exception to the rule of Chinese built bikes, but kymco has a reputation to uphold and control their manufacturing with an iron fist, and rightfully so.

the only thing I don't care for about the like is the panel work is fussy and it makes it a pain in the ass to service anything. very Italian to have to remove half the ass end of the bike to change out a turn signal bulb.

I happen to have an early ZX II Super Fever. Decent little machine with a surprisingly civilized ride.

Now if only magnetti marelli could make a throttle body that didn't break.

I've never broken one, except on purpose.

You're not riding hard enough. I've killed two and my scoot is only 4 years old

I dare say you know not of what you speak here.

You got it backwards. It's not that Italian brands are building copies. It's that they are now Chinese (and Indian) brands. The old brand name is now just a badge.

Which is kind of sad.

Manufacturing has developed so everything is globally made now. Anyone who still thinks Chinese, or Italian, or American means anything quality wise is a decade or two out of touch with current affairs.

It's more complicated than that, though.

Contract manufacturing in China is quite capable of producing outstanding results. The prerequisites, though, are generally that an outside firm is providing a solid and iron-clad design, and that the contract manufacturer is held to a high standard (i.e. no parts substitutions to save cost, no cutting corners, etc).

Chinese firms using their own designs have historically been a disaster. These are poor designs made to domestic Chinese standards that largely would not pass muster in the rest of the developed world. These products are made with a priority on cost first, scale second, and priority third (or last, or not at all). This priority pervades Chinese manufacturing.

That's starting to change, of course, but as long as you still have Chinese companies producing knock-offs of well-known products using cheaper parts and shoddy labor, we will have no shortage of products to point at and laugh.

Non-Chinese companies having products built by contract manufacturers in China might also be shoddy, to be clear — it really depends on how strongly the first party writes the contracts and upholds quality standards. The contract manufacturers will cheat if allowed or left with poor oversight.

But as a general rule, Chinese products built by Chinese companies to Chinese standards are largely shite. There are exceptions, but this is the category that deserves nearly all the criticism that is generally heaped upon Chinese products.

Benelli 502 Cruiser = Ducati Diavil

Benelli Lencino 800 Trail = Triumph Scrambler

Benelli TRK 502X = Triumph Tiger

Benelli Imperiale 400 = Yamaha SR400

All designs shamelessly stolen.

My local trusted dealer binned off Sinnis and Benelli because of unreliability, warranty issues and build inconsistency.

They are a very long way from producing anything as good as the Japanese and the Germans.

I very much doubt that they will ever get there.