Modern Vespa

Hello all, this is a great place you've got here.

I joined this forum because I intend to be the owner of a scoot very soon. I'm scheduled for a Motorcycle Safety Training class next month, then will get the California M1 license. I've ridden bicycles all my life, but never a motorcycle.

The reason for all this is that my wife and I plan to retire in central or southern Italy in a few years, and I think it would be useful to have a scoot as well as a car. Before we get to Italy, I want to not only hone my riding skills but also learn what to look for when test riding and buying a used one in Italy.

After reading a bunch of archive posts, I found quite a few folks here saying that non-Vespa scoots are more popular and numerous in Italy. My dilemma is that the local Craigslist lists 20 used Vespas for every Honda, Suzuki, or Kymco listed for sale. I imagine that it could be useful if I buy a brand over here, get to know it, then buy the same brand in Italy.

Current Italian law limits new drivers to 125cc for three years, so that's what I will have to buy in Italy. (It also limits new drivers to a car of 95HP or less and lower speed limits, which is a bummer, but there are lots of cars available in that category to choose from.) My plan is to buy a 150cc scoot here because 125s seem to be pretty rare.

So I'm trying to decide whether to hold my nose and buy whatever 150cc Honda, Suzuki, or Kymco I can find in whatever condition so that I have transferrable experience for Italy, or to go ahead and buy a Vespa here and keep my fingers crossed that I can find a decent used Vespa in Italy.

What I don't know is if the basic operating components look and work the same on a Vespa compared to Honda, for example: motor, transmission, brakes, gauges, etc. I'd like your opinion about whether I'm worrying about nothing and if I should just go ahead and buy a Vespa, or whether the experience with a non-Vespa scoot over here will give me some solid experience with that brand that will come in handy when I buy in Italy.

I want to stick with fairly recent vintages, both here and when I get to Italy...probably nothing older than 2000. Or should I buy something newer? It seems that many here feel that mileage is less important than whether it was consistently maintained and ridden.

If I buy a Vespa, I'm looking at choosing between an ET4, S-150, or LX, and I'm leaning toward getting one with a top box for helmet storage, or adding a top box if it doesn't already have one.

Thanks for any advice you may have!

I'm afraid I can't give you any information at all about driver's license regulations.
So is your USA driver's license recognized in Italy or not, do you have to have it rewritten when you change your residence to Italy (so not just for a vacation). Also note that there is an international driver's license, I have no idea about that either.
Maybe the driving classes of your national license are also valid if there are different rules for Italian licenses.
Furthermore I can tell you that in Italy more than 125cc is needed to be allowed on the highway, so in Italy also the 150cc models (with 155cc engine) are more popular.

The performance difference of a current Vespa Primavera/Sprint with 125ccm to a 155ccm is marginal, you will hardly notice it in case of doubt. I would not worry about it.
First clarify what you are really allowed to drive in Italy with your driver's license. For German driver's licenses abroad, the German Foreign Office is a good source of information, possibly the United States Department of State can help you.

I have researched the driver's license process and I know quite well how that will go. I will be able to drive a car and scoot in Italy on an International Driver Permit for 1 year only, after which I will need an Italian driver's license.

In Italy, an IDP is required by law of all non-citizen drivers and if a policeman stops you and you don't have one, it will result in a fine ranging from €80 to €3,174. Many rental car agencies also require an IDP when renting a car, and police spot checks are not uncommon.

An American license cannot be simply exchanged for an Italian license like other Europeans can do, so I will have go through the process to get an Italian driver's license, which involves taking driving school (required), taking a written test in Italian, and taking a driving test in Italian. Needless to say, my wife and I are studying Italian. Here's an update for you. The minimum power limit for motorways and intercity highways in Italy was lowered from 150cc to 120cc in 2019, so it seems like I will be able to drive the 125cc anywhere I like.

I've just taken a 125cc from England to Modena and back.

Although Italy proposed allowing 125cc's on motorways in 2019, this was never actually implemented.

The limit is 150cc on not just motorways, but also ring roads around cities.

The Italians have about 1000 extra rules and then ignore a lot of them though! On my return journey, I was contemplating using one ring road on my 125cc. I asked an Italian friend what the fine would be if caught, and his response was "it's Sunday… the police don't really work on Sunday"!

The reason for Italians not allowing 125cc's on major roads is not about the speed, but rather than an Italian car licence used to grant you a 125cc motorcycle right.. without any training! This is only applicable in Italy though. My Italian girlfriend cannot ride a 125cc in England using her Italian licence.

Vespas are popular in some areas, and Italian local clubs tend to be large enough that they often have their own office / premises.

There's an Italian motorcycle insurance that lasts between the two points where the clocks change, and is very cheap. So you tend to see lots of bikes in these 6 months, and then they're parked up for the winter.

Personally, I'd buy a Vespa. There's lots of dealers and mechanics over there, parts are cheap etc.

That's a great start! As someone that is also currently trying to retire to Europe (Portugal in my case) I can appreciate the task ahead of you. Yes, absolutely true. You might have been reading my posts, but Italians are for the most part not enamored with Vespas, but scooters are a daily part of life for many. Here's where I think you've gone off the rails. Learning to be a proficient rider is a tall enough task. I don't think you need to make it taller by matching your first scooter here in the US to what you might eventually be riding in Italy. It's much much more important to learn to ride, and that skill will be fully transferable (with only minor adaptations) to some future scooter in some future country.

In other words, I think you're making more of this than you need to. Correct. Generally, scooters sold as 125cc in Europe have 150cc engines in the US. And again, I don't think you need to match your US experience to your Italy experience. A 150cc scooter is fine for getting around a city in the US, but it's a bit on the slow side when you get out of the city. Your US scooter should probably be suitable for the conditions you will encounter in the US -- the skills you learn will still transfer, up or down to a larger or smaller scooter. Don't get too hung up on this. Buy what you want here. Learn to ride. That's all that matters at this point.

Italy is the European rarity with this.

Most of Europe allows 125's on their major roads, and has 3 tier licensing - up to 125cc (15hp), up to around 400cc (47hp) and unlimited.

In England, I can either buy a 50 / 125cc small frame, or a 125 / 300 GTS.

Italy however still continues to sell the full range of Vespas including the 125 and 150 - purely for those who need motorway / highway use.

Jess - Have a look at Helmet Head on YouTube. He's travelling around on a 125cc Honda Monkey and has done a lot of his rides through Portugal. It looks lovely there!

^^^^This. It's a pretty transferrable skill. I'll ride my 150-300cc Vespas and my BV350 pretty much interchangeably. It's no big deal, other than putting in the key blindly (not sure that's from being tall or having a full face helmet.

Hey. I just did 25 days riding across Italy. I shipped my motorcycle over (BMW G650GS) and left it there so I could continue to ride it next year.

I did a live stream from Italy during my trip answering people's questions here:

Here are the time stamps that might be specifically of interest to you so you don't have to watch the whole thing:

2:25 How long? Buy vs rent?

5:15 Bike prep? Air or sea?

6:24 Costs? Shipping & Tour options

7:36 What company shipped it?

10:47 Why not buy an Italian motorcycle?

If you're bored, check out the whole thing you'll find many questions/tips from MV'ers, including some that have already answered you in this thread (German GTS Driver, Jess).

Part of the appeal of shipping the G650GS over was because it was sold locally and very popular there (I saw a few while I was riding across the country)... so a) if anything went wrong, parts would be available, and techs in Italy would have already been familiar with this model, and b) if I do decide to go through the import process, the bike would already have been sold domestically.

If you're there for the long haul, going there and buying may make the most sense for you, though it was my understanding that you would need to be a resident to own a vehicle there... and you can't get residency until you've established yourself for (I think) several months (can't remember)... For my needs, shipping made more sense. For yours, if you're in no rush to start riding right away, your plan may be best.

Honestly, I don't think you're missing anything, or will be missing anything, getting started on just about any "twist-and-go" (cvt transmission) scooter vs a Vespa as far as learning is concerned.

The only difference you might find is, if you learn on something with larger wheels, like a Honda SH150 with 16" wheels, going to a Vespa with 12" or even 10-11" wheels may feel a little different... but... this won't be any kind of hurdle to overcome, just something you'll notice and figure out as you go. I'm a big fan of buying older, low mileage bikes, but personal preference, I draw the line on Vespa to 2005+. IMO that's when they started making some nice little scoots. The ETs were... fine... just... the LX and GTS were some of the prettiest scoots ever in my opinion.

We will be getting a long-term residency permit when we retire so that we can live permanently in Italy. Once we have the permit, the first thing I'll buy is a car because rental cars are exPENsive...

Ah I see, so first you get the permit, then you get the vehicle. Got it. TY.

I read this to the missus, she had a good laugh, especially the first sentence.

(before someone gets their sensitivities all a-flustered and tries to call her a racist, just want to point out, she laughed at it because... I'm Italian, and living with me can be... an experience! )

Gave you a follow on Insta Jake. Good account. Rome was the only exception. Other than that, yeah

There is a German website to compare rental car offers everywhere in the world, used it several times: works very well.

As long as the website (www.billiger-mietwagen.de) seems to be only in German the app is multi-language:

Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.billigermietwagen.app.de&hl=en_US

IPhone:
https://apps.apple.com/de/app/billiger-mietwagen-de/id981543127

Sixt offers monthly rental cars in Europe, called "Sixt plus", rates are different from standard offers: https://www.sixt.it/plus/ (I'm using Sixt long time rentals for my company cars since 10years now).

I'm not sure if that is the same in the US/Italy: In Germany rental car rents starting at the airport/train station is 10-15% more expensive than starting a little more outside. Depending on the duration rent it is maybe less expensive to take a bus/taxi to a different rental car station.

In case it matters, in Europe many rental cars have a manual transmission, especially the small cars. The larger the class, the more likely automatic. Sometimes small cars with automatic transmission are more expensive (because of the extra charge) than larger classes including automatic. You can also save on GPS if you bring one yourself.

There are a whole lot of scooters in Italy and Europe in general that you won't ever see here, so it is somewhat putting the cart ahead of the horse to decide what you are going to end up with there based on what you can find here.
Once you are out and riding around in much different conditions than you are used to, you might have a different opinion as to what is the best fit for you, scooter wise. The most popular scooter in Italy is the Honda SH 150, a scooter you can't get in the US. Once you get there and see how the roads and traffic are, you might be able to figure out why it's so much more popular in Italy than the offerings of Piaggio and Vespa. And there's the Peugeot Django, which is an "interesting" retro scooter that's been out for years. There are also supercharged 125cc scooters, and three wheel 125cc scooters like an MP3. Lots and lots more options.

The folks here have you covered pretty well already.

A few points that may be worth adding:

- I've ridden a Vespa, a Beverly, a Yamaha, and a few Hondas overseas. The only really difference in the controls is where the headlight switch is. You adapt quickly.

- The speed limit on the Autostrada is 130kph. That's a bit faster than a modern GTS will go without modifications (even a 300). Italians are very insistent about passing on the left (and yielding to faster traffic). Freeway riding isn't fun anywhere, but it's also not fun in Italy, and a Vespa is particularly underpowered for it there.

- You're on the right track learning in California before trying overseas. Buying a Vespa was one of the best decisions I made when I lived in San Francisco - it's the perfect place for it. Lane splitting and free/easy parking make it the best way to get around The City, and the monumental nature in any direction is a real treat from the seat of a moto. One of my favorite daytrips was riding up the coast to Jenner and back.

- Italians are way less obedient road users than Californians. In the words of Capt Barbarossa, the lanes "are more like guidelines." I've spent the summer convalescing at my parents' house after being hit by a daft woman in Italy who couldn't be bothered to keep her lane and tried to take mine by force.

Riding in a new country is always its own challenge. Italians are more aggressive than Californians, and the Vietnamese engender utter chaos on their roads. Good on you for learning ahead of time and getting comfortable! That way when you get there, you can focus less on how to ride and more on how to survive Italian traffic.

You're welcome to search for my thread "Doing a lap around Italy" if you feel so compelled. I'm due to add some chapters to it myself. I've been a lot less active on here since I haven't been riding.

Let's add my 2 cents.
Vespa is rare(ish) in Italy because it's one of the more expensive scooters there, and one of the more frequently stolen. When you depend on your scooter to get to work and to the shop (Italians usually walk to the shop), those are important things.
Get as new as you can. For daily rider I'd rather have 2 year old with 15K than 15 year old with 2K. Newer ones are more reliable. Rubber decays, metal rusts (unibody frame is difficult to fix rust in) and electronics fail. Mileage in regularly maintained scooter is of little worry. Older parts can be harder to source.
Scooters of different brands are as similar to ride as bikes (or cars) of different brands. There can be more difference between various Vespas than a Vespa and Honda SH (SH is the most popular scooter in Italy).

I have friends that packed it in and moved to Central Italy (Todi). They love it. It seems that even towns as small as Todi have a local (and active) Vespa Club. If you are looking to socialize, then being a Vesparado is one way.