Modern Vespa

My 2023 Primavera 150 is due for its first service. In the manual, it shows that the valves are to be adjusted at that interval (1000 km, 621 miles). The guy in service I spoke to said that 9 times out of 10 the clearances are fine. And that they recommend doing at the third service instead.

It's a difference between about $120 and $350-$400 without and with doing the valve clearance adjustment.

A friend and I will be trailering it to the shop that is over an hour away, so the engine should be pretty cold. So no issues there.

What do all of you guys think? Should I do it "by the book" or just wait till the third service to have the valves adjusted?

What happens to the 1 out of 10 engine?

My opinion on this is, if for some reason they're not set quite right by the factory, they could be pretty far out after 600 miles and could do some damage. I adjust the valves at the recommended first interval. Subsequent service intervals maybe I'll skip if I haven't been having performance issues. YMMV.

... and as the guy said, "nine times out of ten". One out of ten aren't very good odds.

One of mine was quite far out on the first service. Engine tone and mpg were very different after the first service as well (mpg improved).

Having the valves adjusted keeps the warranty intact.

BUT, that's a crazy price difference for a relatively easy job that's only labour and no additional parts.

My first service was £160 ($200) including the valves. My second service at 3000 miles (which didn't include the valve adjustment as not needed at that mileage) was £77 ($100).

That was at a main Vespa Piaggio dealer.

Find a new workshop urgently!

For smallframes with an air-cooled engine, checking and, if necessary, adjusting the valve clearance at the first inspection (and then at the intervals described in the manual) is absolutely essential.

The first inspection (1000km/620mls) is calculated to take 90 minutes according to the workshop manual (incl. valve clearance). Here in Germany, the first inspection including all parts, oil and tax costs around €180-200 at a official Vespa dealer.

If you haven't misunderstood him, then the statements leave little room for interpretation: incompetent and/or a rip-off artist

Cheekythomas said (many moons ago) that he always checked the valves when doing a service - he reckoned it took him about 15 minutes tops on a GTS, so not much longer than the time it took for the oil to drain properly. Swing the engine down and have at it!

I now do it whenever the rear wheel comes off - then it's just one more suspension bolt to undo to get the engine into the right position to get the valve cover off.

This shop is mainly a Honda-Suzuki shop. They do sell Vespa and Piaggio as well. They are on the list of dealers from Piaggio's web site.

It's funny, every person there that I have spoken to about the first service over the last four months or so seems to think that the valves aren't adjusted on the first service.

I'd take it somewhere else, but there aren't other any Vespa dealers nearby. This is the one I bought my bike from and they are about 1.25 hours away.

Is there a copy of the service manual page for how long that service is supposed to take available?

You could learn to do the valves yourself.

Thanks, but I don't have a place to work on it right now, nor my tools. Besides, since it is under warranty, I was under the impression that taking it to the dealer is preferable, at least for that first service, to start out on the right foot and make sure everything is correct from the word go.

I will probably do the oil changes myself later on. But this first service, I want any little issues to be noted and rectified by an authorised dealer. But I'm torn now.

Understood. No problem. But then I would ask the dealer to do valves at first service, regardless of what they say.

I'm sure the flat rate tables are floating around somewhere, but that's usually privileged information that is only supplied to dealers.

I have them for ET/LX, PX, GT & GTS and frankly, they're a joke. so even if you had them, it's unlikely that anybody adheres to them anyway.

If it's running OK at the moment, and performance is all you'd expect, then if they were going to charge that much to check the valves I'd personally give that a miss. If there's difficult starting, poor cool running or stalling easily before fully warmed up then yes, check the valve clearance pronto. If not, then it's most probable they're just fine.

Bottom line, don't sweat it.

I called 3 Vespa shops. I asked if they adjust the valves at 600 miles and all 3 said no. Not until 6000 miles. They all said to check mileage and if it dips then maybe the valves would need to be checked. I said okay, can I get that in writing? No? Dang.

I have a brand new GTS HPE 300 super sport, a Vietnam built Australian market bike. For its 1 k service there is no valve adjustment on the card only steering adjustment and fluids are replaced ,valve adjustment only appears at the 10k service.

It does go to show that Piaggio themselves have an evolving view of what gets included on each of the services.

Is that what you really want though?

Because in the first post you said the manual tells you what to do... and yet you're asking us about not doing it lol

If actually want "to start out on the right foot and make sure everything is correct from the word go" than do that.

If you're just saying you want to do that, but you don't actually want to do that, then don't do that.

Nope!

GTS 125/150 (i-get) & 300 HPE = liquid cooled Engine = no valve adjustment at first service (1000km/620mls)

Sprint & PV 50/125/150 (i-get) = aircooled Engine = valve adjustment at first service (1000km/620mls)

Different bikes / engines (and maybe different modell years, displacement, etc.) = different work scheduled at different service intervals

For what bike do you ask? (See above)

Ok my bad.

Presumably Baudler was commenting about his Racing 60's Sprint 150.

Correct. Sorry. I'm not here like I used to be.

Then I can't understand what the workshops are saying. Checking and, if necessary, adjusting the valve clearance is part of the first inspection for Sprint and Primavera, for which Piaggio specifies 90 minutes. The average customer orders an inspection (at an authorized workshop) and expects all the work specified by the manufacturer to be carried out.

If a workshop does not carry out the full inspection and then charges for the 90 minutes plus materials, it must be considered fraudulent.
If the garage charges for less time, e.g. 60 minutes instead of 90 minutes, it must at least be clearly communicated that the work carried out does not correspond to the scope required by the manufacturer (and therefore also jeopardizes the warranty)!

I called another shop in a larger city, that is about 5 hours or so away. They also, at least at first, stated that there is no valve adjustment at 621 miles. But when I asked again, the service writer said that she had been given an update by the service manager that there is. So, without, this other shop (Vespa dealer) quoted $226.12. With the valve adjustment, they quoted $447.05.

These prices are much higher than the 200 Euro prices that my European cousins are quoting. I sincerely doubt that labor costs are that much lower in Germany, for example.

And there persists this apparent ignorance of what is included in the 1000 km service. Maybe this is just a lack of training on Piaggio's part. Or maybe it could be that these shops aren't Vespa/Piaggio-only shops. Could it be that they just don't do enough Vespas to keep track of what needs to be done? Is this an issue with the wider world of riding Vespas in the United States (where no majority Vespa shop is available)?

The 621 mile valve adjustment is unique to the air cooled small frame engines (125 / 155cc).

I can only assume that the water cooled GTS300 is more popular state side?

I think you're getting quoted high prices either because they don't want to do the work (not experienced enough), or because they are over estimating what's involved.

On some bikes, you have to remove a crazy amount of parts to adjust the valves; fuel tank, body panels etc.

But the Vespa can be done easily with the access panel (although some people do remove the single suspension bolt at the rear to pivot the engine slightly).

This engine has been removed from the Vespa to make it easier to film, but ultimately he starts unscrewing the valve cover at 3:30, and has finished adjusting all the valves by 10:30 - so 7 minutes to adjust them all, including having a chat and explaining what he's doing!

1) Jack up the Vespa.
2) Remove 4 valve cover screws
3) Feeler gauges and tighten / loosen 3 bolts
4) Do up 4 valve cover screws

Job done.

The fact you're being quoted an additional $220 for this is crazy, and doesn't give much confidence that the mechanics know what they're doing.

Labor costs at Vespa dealers in Germany are around 90-100€ per hour (including tax).

Again: 90 Minutes including adjusting valve clearance. Let's assume that adjusting the valve clearance takes 30 minutes (and I'm assuming that's very generous), then the difference without/with should be a maximum of €50 (no parts needed!)

Thanks, I've seen that video before. One thing I noticed a while back is that the valve clearances he quoted are NOT what are in the manual for the 2023 model 155cc engine. The manual says 0.003" or 0.08mm for both the intake and exhaust valves.

If the only dealer within a couple hours' drive is the one that quoted $120 or $350+ then what I am I left with? How would one even approach this apparent overcharge and still maintain a good working relationship with this particular shop? I hope it is ignorance on their part and not malice. I called another shop closer to my city, but they no longer service Vespas.

I want the service done completely by the book by certified mechanics, but I'm not made of money either. Grrrrr!

Valve clearance (cold):
- Intake: 0,10mm +/- 0.02mm
- Exhaust: 0,10mm +/- 0.02mm

Very interesting. Are those specs for the 2023 155cc engine model? My manual says 0.08mm.

Yes! Primavera / Sprint 150 since 2020 (E5)

But to be sure, I'm not familiar with the models on the US market. Are these still E4 (emission standard) in MY23? If yes, the following information applies to the E4:
Valve clearance (cold):
- Intake: 0.08mm
- Exhaust: 0.08mm

Sorry if this has caused any confusion.

Could also be that the manuals aren't up to date. I've noticed a lot of little errors both on their web site, PDFs, and in the print manual. They're minor, but they are there. Online, there are conflicting pieces of information. Some places it says it is Euro 4 other places it says it is Euro 5. I have contacted Piaggo/Vespa about the print manual, but I never heard back

https://manuals.vespa.com/

Register with your FIN and get owners manual (but not service manual!) for download.

Yeah, I have that download too. Both say that "Emission norms 40 CFR Part 86 Subpart E" for what it's worth.

My Euro 5 125cc is 0.08mm as well. I assume the 125cc is the same head, but the piston is a larger diameter on the 155cc.

My service manual states also

Valve clearance (cold):
- Intake: 0,10mm +/- 0.02mm
- Exhaust: 0,10mm +/- 0.02mm

for the 125ccm E5.

Just to confirm that's the 125cc air cooled engine?

That's a big discrepancy for Piaggio to have within their own written documentation!

This is from my book that came with the Vespa when it was new.

Yes. Primavera/Sprint 125 E5 (it is always the air cooled engine).

So the E4 is 0.02mm, but the E5 is 0.08mm?

Or your service manual also shows the E5 as 0.02mm?

NO!

- Intake: 0,10mm +/- 0.02mm
- Exhaust: 0,10mm +/- 0.02mm

MEANING:

From 0,08mm to 0,12mm

0,10mm - 0,02mm = 0,08mm
0,10mm + 0,02mm = 0,12mm

So you adjust the valve clearance in the middle of the range (0,10mm)

Thanks, I understand now.

Again to have all measurements for the discussed models in one post:

Vespa Primavera / Sprint 125 and 150 E5:

Valve clearance (cold):
- Intake: 0,10mm +/- 0.02mm
- Exhaust: 0,10mm +/- 0.02mm

Vespa Primavera / Sprint 125 and 150 E4:
Valve clearance (cold):
- Intake: 0.08mm*
- Exhaust: 0.08mm*

* no range definition