Modern Vespa

And standard question about ignition timing.
How much? 18-19º ?

Serie pro is same as stock px200?

Px200 should be 23degrees.

Yes cylinder is the same, only with GS piston.
Before answer here I read lot about 23° was actual when 200cc was introduced.
And with modern fuel it must be 18°, 19°, or 21°. Different people gives different advices.
So where is the truth?

Good point!

But I still use 23 degrees lol… seems to work… had no problems.

The engine came to life today!

I happen to set my stock 200 at 22 degrees. 90% of the time i ride on the highway. You can always start at 21 degrees and slowly work your way back to 22 or 23.

Love your engine stand. Now I need to modify mine like yours to test run my engines! Great idea with the rubber mounts on the legs. I don't know about riding in the snow but summer in Ukraine looks like a great place to scoot from your previous pictures. Closest I've been is Bulgaria.

Look like Vespa again. We found used LML Auto fork. And new parts: mudguard, horn cover, handlebar cover.
Now I need to drill holes for floor rails and then it will go to painter.

Took only 5 hours
I. Hate. This.
But there is also left side waiting

I was a bit confused with your engine. At first look, I thought it was a P200E engine, with the lack of a hole for a starter motor on the crankcase, and the position of the cdi unit (lower than later PX200 (EFL or arcobaleno depending on the market)).

Then I noticed the Cosa clutch, which would in any case be out of place on a 1993 scooter when it was implemented on the P series in 1995.

The output shaft and the inner seal told me that this was in fact an EFL engine.

I checked the number, and turns out it's from 1986.

And that led me to understand that the position of the cdi has to do not with the generation of the bike, but whether it had a starter motor or not. The adjunction of a motor meant the cdi had to be moved out of the way.

So although the engine isn't a '93, it's a pretty cool one I didn't know existed: no starter motor but autolube. Afaik, most markets either had the "luxury" model: starter + autolube; or neither. But yours has the best of both worlds.

Regarding the LML cowl, did you convert it to the vespa-type blinker connection, or do you have the hanging wire as per LML specs?
You can drill a hole in the part that enters the frame, and use the vespa type connection by routing it through the hole and to the blinker. You also need to reinforce the part of the cowl where the hook grabs it (it's in a different position on LMLs).

This job took me a long time too. I am picky, so if a rivet got squashed wrong and looked like a booger, I would do it again. Looks great. Carry on.

For a 1993 model you should have gone with the closed end caps and pop rivets…

WOW! Very interesting info! Thanks!
How about this re-stamped cases numbers? Maybe it is the answer?


This LML side panel already have from the factory that reinforcement plate you showed and Vespa type indicator connection. It is from 200cc 4-stroke. But when I will get it back from the sandblasting I check it again. Oh it is not 100% true to original restoration so it is absolutely not a problem.
For my P i bought this original kit with closed end caps. And struggled few hours but cannot fixed any of the end caps with pop rivet(tried different rivets sizes). So i decide to drill caps for countersunk screws.


Remembering all that for this PX we decide to bought this CIF Easy Assembly kit with end caps with holes. I can't say that floor runner is noticeably softer than "original" ones(as SIP states). But rubber seems more quality. And almost three times cheaper. I will use pop rivets on the runners and then decide what to use on the end caps - pop rivets or countersunk screws.

Let the rivet shaming begin…😉

I think the rivet thing is kind of an inside joke. It's the only detail that gets pointed out in a forum that is relaxed about people doing things their own way.

Depending on the project, I tend to like to keep things original if it's not too impractical. Sometimes I don't care. Sometimes I fixate on things that don't matter.

Some parts were back from sand blasting and powder coating.

Nice powder very metallic

Too much metallic? It is RAL9022.

Looks great from here

Nah, looks great.🤙🏻

I think if all your silvers match you can go more metallic or less. Either way. Looks great Roland!

Looks great! Mine are metallic but dead flat. But close enough.

A little progress. New bearings and seals. And sanded brake surface.

We have some updates.






And short video

The most logical way to go is to work from Euro 95 as it compares with old ´regular´. The crucial difference is the lack of lead additive which makes it burn a bit slower, thus if anything asking for móre ignition advance.

The next given is that ethanol burns slower than gasoline.
So E5 (5%) would need móre rather than less advance and E10 even more.

Bottom line being that modern gasoline does not need a retarded ignition timing.

Next important criterium is compression ratio. The higher the less advance is needed.
With our 2 stroke there is the additional filling rate. If through tuning the torque increases this means the BMEP has gone up which is in effect a higher cr meaning less advance.

Lastly there is the rev range the engine is operating at. If tuned for higher revs then the ignition must be advanced.

You do the math for your engine.

For my stock P200E the math will balance out when I fit the Polini Box:
Tanking E5 asks for móre advance, the higher BMEP for less.

A side observation is the E5 and E10 have, because of the ethanol content, a corresponding lower caloric value thus will produce less power.
Another difference is that the ethanol burns slightly cooler.
These two combined in effect reduce the risk of pre-ignition slightly. This is again relevant for the topic

[quote="roland87"]
We have some updates.

Here's an update for you. Awesome!! Love the video how it shows the paint going from light to dark. It'll look even better assembled! Love seeing all the different ways people paint their scoots.

That's a killer shade of green. Nice choice!

Everything is going much slower than we expected. But there is some progress.

Great color choice. Love the cowl cutouts!

Looks a bit like a Stella 4T cowl.

Only good part of the Stella Auto were the cowls, they went a step further and had louvers on both sides.

https://scootinoldskool.wordpress.com/2014/03/23/2014-genuine-stella-125-automatic-indeed-hell-hath-frozen-over/

Yep, scrolling back through the thread; it is an LML cowl. Lots of good stuff in this build, how'd I miss this one! Looking forward to seeing this finished!

You are still on time ! 😁

Your first words from your 1st post :

« Another long build for this winter. And next spring. And summer. And easily even autumn... »

They made 2 versions of the louvered cowls; the other had a front-facing opening as well as a smaller side one.

This is from LML Auto. Left hand side cowl also have same louvers.

On this PX we have cowl from LML 200 4T.

Yep!

Very cool!

Literally

HaHa. Nice

The main reason why everything slowed down - the owner went to the Armed Forces of Ukraine. He is a combat medic.
He also was on training in Great Britain. And even then he found Vespa.
I believe and really hope that he will return from the frontline unharmed and and will be enjoy his dream of a classic Vespa that has become a reality.
And I will do the best I can that depends on me.

Big respect to him, fighting for your country (and the rest of Europe in general) is very brave. Hope he will be back safe from the front line and will enjoy his classic Vespa.