Modern Vespa

I did a brief test ride of a Vespa GTS 300.
I really liked it: lightweight, nimble, nice engine, the suspensions were much much better than those of the old Vespas I remembered.

BUT one bugbear really annoyed me: especially with a full face helmet, and at least with my height, I found it practically impossible to read the speedometer without taking my eyes off the road almost completely. Do you have the same issue? Does it not bother you?

It's relatively straightforward to tell if you're doing, say, more than 30mph / 50kmh or more than 60mph /96kmh

But, where I am, more and more urban roads have 20mph limits.
Most police forces grant a tolerance of 10% + 2mph, but not all - it is a bit of a lottery. So basically you can get fined for going at 22mph. I don't know about you, but I'm not sure I can be certain of whether I'm doing 20 or 22mph without looking at the speedo!

I think I should probably look at those scooters like Honda PCX, Honda Forza, Yamaha N-max and x-max, Suzuki Burgman etc, where the seating position is less upright and the speedo is placed more forward and upwards, rather than close and downwards as in the Vespa.

Have a look at the Supertech, with the digital dash.

You get a single large number displaying your speed.

Also bear in mind that most speedos over read. My Elettrica was limited to 28mph, but the Speedo would show 31mph. So you have a 3mph margin built into the Vespa itself, as well as the margin of the speed camera.

You'd have to be going 38mph+ on the speedo to trigger a 30mph speed camera - assuming the 10%+2mph, plus the Vespa margin.

You do also get used to what speed you're doing with a quick glance down. If you're travelling at a set speed, and you only glance down once - it's easy to maintain that speed without checking every few seconds.

Also, with only a rear numberplate - you can only get caught speeding with a camera behind you - and it's easy to focus on the speedo as you're going past the camera itself.

I prefer digital speedos in general and I wanted to look at a Supertech, but the dealer didn't have any.

However, if the seating position and the angle/position of the dash is the same, I'm not sure having a digital speedo would make that much difference.

Is your point that digital is easier to read, or that the speedo for the Supertech is positioned at a slightly different angle that makes it more readable?

I'm not that worried about breaching the 30mph limit, to be honest, more about the 20mph. Arguably the risk is low in the areas where they apply the 10% + 2mph thing, because I'd have to do 24mph + whatever the difference between reading and actual is at that speed.

But in areas which do NOT apply the 10% +2mph rule the risk becomes much higher.

Maybe I'm overthinking it because I am used to bigger, more powerful bikes, but what freaks me out is not only the risk of being fined for doing 22-23, but that taking your eyes off the road to read the speedo is dangerous, especially in an urban environment where you can have pedestrians / cyclists / motorcyclists / cars popping out of nowhere with little to no warning.

Angle is the same, just a lot easier to read with a split second glance.

This is NOT the current GTS300, (I think the suspension is better on the brand new model) - but the onboard will give you an idea of how easy it is to see your speed in a split second.

Personally, I wouldn't be worried about this. I'm only on a 125cc, but I've never found it to be an issue.

Also, just to say that one of the benefits of an open face helmet (or flip up) is much greater vision.

I would never do a motorway commute with an open face, but they do have their merits at slow speeds when you need to be hyper aware of your entire surroundings.

If you're travelling a lot in 20mph-40mph zones, it might be worth having a different helmet (but keeping the full face for bigger roads). I find the peripheral vision benefits are invaluable whilst filtering, and I also like that I can lock eyes with people when I'm exiting a roundabout - to ensure they've seen me. I feel I'm treated better when they see my face vs when I wear a full face helmet and I become a bit anonymous.

Yetanother, & JakeM,

I am not use to getting speeding violations for a few miles over the limit. You two are obviously more familiar with your local laws. Is this some method of making money for the local municipality?

Here in Mid-America Minnesota, we have a lot of geography. Police do not enforce less than 10 mph over the limit supposedly because their radar speed
detectors are not reliable within 10 mph. So, if they gave out a ticket for 8 miles over the limit the individual could get it thrown out in court.

Having said that, in other States the cops do the old fashion hide behind signs or in blind curves to give out a bunch of tickets to fund the local police station.

Still, in Minnesota allot of tickets were being given out - cops had daily quotas to fund the police operation. The Minnesota legislature made quotas illegal and made it illegal for fines to go to local police budgets. Bang, over night, nobody is getting anymore speeding tickets. They still stop for excessive speeding.

Again, my question to you Brits - is this a money making thing?

I know controlling speeding reduces accidents - I really do not speed. But, this under 10mph over the limit violation stuff is questionable - follow the money and you might find out. Additionally, we really do not have speed limits of 20 mph - this only occurs next to a school when the kids are actually getting out.

Bob Copeland

We have fixed speed cameras that have to be painted yellow, but can be viewed on Google maps and there will be signage to say we're approaching one - so easy to spot and slow down.

Then we have speed camera vans which again are bright yellow, but move from place to place. As the vans have the camera secured in the van itself and not handheld, the tolerances can be a bit tighter and so that's why we have to be a bit more careful.

Saying that though, most camera vans point towards the front of cars (we have to have front number plates on all cars), but motorcycles are the only vehicles without a front plate and often get away with this.

Most of the UK roads are policed more by cameras, then physical police. We are not usually pulled over for speeding, we just get an automatic letter through the post within 14 days.

Everything is registered against our numberplates. We don't even have to carry title documents, proof of insurance or even a driving licence to drive. The police can see all of this from your number plate.

We also fill up with fuel first and then pay after. If you don't pay, the garage lets the police know and it's registered against your number plate.

There are police cars about and on the roads, but they often respond to accidents or only respond if something flags up on their car computer when it reads your number plate.

But yes - the general feeling amongst motorists is that it is about making money!

The speedo on my BV350 is off by quite a bit (+10%). It also favors KPH over MPH on the display, and since I live in the US, the MPH reading is extremely difficult to read. So I got a RAM mount and downloaded a GPS speedometer app on my iPhone, and use that for the speed. It makes it much easier to ride at the speed I intend to ride at, without having to stare at the speedometer.

You can see from the image below that the MPH arc is much smaller than the KPH arc.

The mount/app combo has the added benefit of having GPS Navigation information right in front of me.

Bob ,

European cities tend to be much more densely populated. In fact, one of the things I don't like about the US is that, with some notable exceptions like New York, San Francisco and a few others, there is too much suburban sprawl, which forces you to be car-dependant. A lot of it is to do with silly zoning rules, which prevent the mixing of commercial and residential, forcing you to drive 15 minutes just to buy a pint of milk. This channel has quite a few interesting videos about it: If my partner didn't need it for a job outside the city, we would probably not even have a car. And if my commute were shorter I would not be considering a Vespa but I'd rely on my ebike only.

Also in Europe driving tests and regulation in general tend to be much stricter, for both cars and motorcycles. We don't let a 16-year old ride an R1, they need to be 24 (or 21 with prior experience). The argument that US roads are wider so rules don't need to be much stricter doesn't hold much water, because, even normalising by miles driven, US roads remain much more dangerous than in Western Europe, especially than in the UK.

All of this to say that the importance of speed limits in many European cities, with narrower roads and a much greater population density, is quite different from most of the US.

Specifically on 20mph: it is a contentious point, because these limits certainly make sense near schools or in narrower roads. I am not convinced they make wider roads safer, though.

This UK government study concluded that: This article also mentions inconclusive results: https://www.itsinternational.com/its2/feature/speed-limits-20-really-plenty
as does this British one: https://www.qub.ac.uk/News/Allnews/featured-research/20-mph-speed-limits-little-impact-crashes.html

However, like many things, it has become a culture war between green zealots who think no one should ever drive, and petrolheads who think it's their constitutional right to drive stupidly dangerous and polluting vehicles everywhere. There is very little room for sensible voices in between.

Ah, one thing that seems interesting and I'd like to understand more is if 20mph reduce pollution and fuel consumption by keeping vehicles at a more constant speed, preventing them from accelerating too much; after all, even if you reach 30mph in a city, you won't keep that speed for long.

A counterargument is that 20mph don't make much practical difference during the day and rush hour, but they make a difference when roads are emptier (like at night or during certain holidays) and there is little reason to penalise vans and other vehicles who need to drive at those times; for a van crossing the entire city at night, 20mph instead of 30mph can increase the journey time quite a bit.

One of the reasons I might be switching to a modular helmet next time. Full-face on the motorway, open-face in the city.

JakeM, I only use full face helmets. Maybe it's my motorcyclist bias, but I could consider using a non-full face one only in the worst heatwaves, of which we don't have many here. and during which I prefer using the ebike anyway.
I get it it's subjective; I have zero interest in convincing anyone of anything, just explaining my own preferences.

monogodo, where / how did you install that RAM mount? is it attached to the windscreen? Glued? Screwed on some kind of bar?

I am a big fan of the PeakDesign mounts,
https://uk.peakdesign.com/products/ball-mount-adapter?variant=40050773590093
which I find much better than quadlock, SP Connect etc, but I thought the only way to install them on a Vespa was with a 1 inch ball connector installed at the base of the mirror, something like https://www.ram-mount.co.uk/mirror-or-pinchbolt-mount-with-1-ball

Another system I like a lot, and which doesn't require a dedicated case, is the TackForm https://www.tackform.com/pages/mirror-mount-page-plus-builder-tackform-3-0

Both have versions with vibration dampeners - because apparently you can kill the optical stabilisation in your phone camera with engine vibrations

I think you are right.
I have a jet-helmet on my BV 300. I do not have an issue with checking the speedo in a glance, although it is an analogue speedo and on the BV you have almost the same upright sitting position as on a Vespa GTS.

Another thing is that when you ride your scooter for some time and get used to it, then at these low speeds you only need one glance and keep the engine at the same revving, at the same pitch, and you will be fine, without constantly checking that speedo.

Well, Bob, there are a lot of interesting observations in what you wrote. It is Belgium not UK but I can share how things go over here.
Is it a method of making money for the local municipality?
Yes it is. Not only for local municipalities, also for the federal state.

Last year, 2022, there were 6.2 million fines for speeding. We are a small country with 11 million inhabitants, and some 6 million cars. Which means on average every car gets at least 1 fine for speeding per year.
More than 90% of these speed violations are for less than 10kph over the limit.
Income for federal state and local municipalities in 2022 was roughly 550 million €, a bit more than 550 million $.
It is a huge amount of money, and it increases year after year.

I add thin slivers of labelling tape to my speedos, calibrated against GPS. Below is my US GTS speedo - a small mark at 20mph, larger ones at 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 and another small one at 80mph.

Very easy to see at a glance, and easily guesstimated for 5mph increments (I know the UK doesn't have those. )

Excellent idea! One could also put the strips at where common speed limits are I suppose.

I really don't want to start a speedometer accuracy discussion again, but with my VW (not a bike I know) I used to have, I determined it was 5% slower than real speed. That worked out to 1 mile per hour every 20 miles an hour. I just kept that in the back of my mind while driving.

So, in order to go 60 mph, I had to go 63mph according to the car's speedometer. I'm sure by ignoring it and going the indicated speed, it probably got me out of getting pulled over a couple of times!

But they are not all the same.
Going at 60 kmh in a 50 kmh zone with schools and pedestrians and junctions etc is more dangerous than going at 130kmh instead of 120kmh on the motorway.

I have a RAM mount ball adapter attached to the mirror stem, which is what I use for my beloved Peak Design motorcycle mount. A few strategies from Robot, Mitch, and Vespa Portland:

Mine is most like the last.

I find the large number speed doesn't fit well in my field of view with my full face helmet BUT the smaller number speed that you get in nav mode does fit. This is because the entirety of the small number is high whereas the large get's the bottom chopped off. So I always have my dash in the nav screen layout (but not usually doing nav).

My phone mount puts the speedo much more directly in my line of sight without causing any kind of obstruction to my vision.

Some will complain that a phone causes a distraction. These are people who don't know you can turn on Do Not Disturb mode in two taps on your screen. Politely nod and then ignore them lol

View with mirror stem phone mount:



(the camera settings made the screen look quite dark, it's actually totally visible even in broad daylight)

Instructions in this video:

There's a thread here about adding a RAM mount to the BV350. Essentially I bought a longer bolt and the RAM ball mount and replaced the mounting bolt for the windscreen center mount with the ball mount and longer bolt.

I've attached a pic of it from a side angle to better show how it mounts.

I'm fairly certain that the solution I have is unique to the BV350, and I see that others have posted about using other RAM (and other manufacturer) solutions for mounting iPhone/Android devices to the scooters.

I just realized that the pics I posted are of the mount behind a Givi windscreen. I've attached a crappy pic of the mount behind the stock windscreen.