Modern Vespa

hello everyone! i recently purchased a beautiful brand new Primavera 150 S and it rides really smoothly and nicely.

Here's my question: I only use it for commuting back and forth to work, about 15-20 minutes each away. I live in Brooklyn, NY so I'm dealing with a lot of obnoxious drivers. I have a very good helmet, I basically take the same route every day and I'm very careful.

However, I'm considering selling it simply for the fact that I'm scared I'll get into an accident. I've had a concussion before and almost lost my business and I'm scared it could happen again.

My wife and I have talked about this for hours (literally) and we can't make up our minds what the right decision is. My other options for commuting aren't very appealing, but they are safer (the bus in particular).

Thanks so much for any responses/ideas/etc!

Sincerely,

Eli

What I found helped when dealing with Manhattan traffic was to ride the scooter or motorcycle more like a fast bicycle when it comes to heavy traffic. Stay out of the way, close to the right side, and pull ahead at intersections, so you are ahead of the pack when the light changes. One issue I had was the cabs coming over on me while I was in the lane, so I needed to be able to move over into the bike lane. You aren't likely to get taken out by someone going right on red, because they can't, at least in Manhattan. Not sure about Brooklyn though. And remember, you are small and can go places cars can't.

The level of risk one is willing to take is a huge part of riding a motorcycle... or not riding one.

Have you taken a motorcycle safety course to hone in your skills? Are there other routes you can take which are advantageous to scooters and less desirable for cars?

Oh, and welcome to MV.

Is this your first time on a motorcycle / scooter? If so, it does take a bit of time before the muscle memory kicks in and the Vespa feels like an extension of you. When I started riding, I was very wooden in my movements and would often press the horn instead of the lights by accident. Now, I can see that I ride a lot smoother, and have a much greater awareness of what everyone is doing around me.

Is there a Vespa club you could go on a couple of rides with - it's quite useful seeing how other people ride in a specific area.

I think the idea of completing driver safety training is a good one.

You can optimize your protective equipment: Full-face helmet, gloves, jeans with Kevlar/Aramid, jacket with protectors. Pants and jacket are also available in pretty and everyday versions with sufficient safety for city traffic.

Here in Germany there are some bikers who wear a reflective high-visibility vest to be seen better.

Thanks everyone for your replies so far!

Yes I did a safety course in the past that was helpful. And I wear plenty of gear when I ride.

Just nervous about the general concept of getting into an accident!

Maybe the advanced rider course that focuses more on enhanced operational skills, advanced maneuvers and accident avoidance?

Perhaps spend some time riding during off-peak hours to increase confidence and comfort on the bike? Perhaps some early Sunday AM rides? I realize it's Brooklyn and off-peak hours may be few and far-between.

I'm kind of in the same boat as the OP. I have a lot of health issues, a young child, etc. Getting into a wreck would be catastrophic for me (well, it would be for anyone really).

When I first started riding this Primavera in city traffic, I was nervous as all get out. I would allow myself to get psyched out. I'd catastrophise (is that a word?) to the point that I would think that this is my last day on earth and this is how I die. It was sucking all the enjoyment out of the ride, keeping me from getting on the bike at points.

I'm not sure how I did it, but familiarity with this particular bike did help. I agree that training, if you can get it where you live will help. But my experience is that just getting a lot of miles under your belt, getting used to your machine, will help more than anything. Find a friend that is patient and has more experience and go ride with them for pleasure, not just commuting.

I still am a little nervous when I get on my bike to go somewhere. But I personally think that that is good. A tiny bit of nervousness is showing that I am taking this seriously and that I am being careful. I think it is when we become too complacent, that's when bad things tend to happen. So, "cautious" instead of "nervous" might be a better way of saying it.

On the flip side, being too nervous messes with your head and makes you make mistakes. So, my advice is to relax, be cautious, vigilant, but don't let your imagination get the better of you. Enjoy the ride, but be smart.

Cheers!

The whole of life is a risk. I understand that people try to avoid all unnecessary risks in everyday life. Have respect when biking, but don't be afraid. Fear is a bad companion.

There are a series of videos from Vespa NY called "Meet the riders": Maybe it gives you some more ideas and feedback from the local Vespa community.

Great idea! Find some fellow 2-wheel commuters.

Basically what my rambling was trying to say.

More succinct version of what I was saying is "manage the risk". You can never eliminate risk. Address whatever you have control over. Make sure your bike is in good riding order. Make sure you are riding the appropriate safety gear. Ride sober and aware of your surroundings.

I wish you the best.

Thanks everyone! I did some research and found a motorcycle safety school pretty close to where I live. They do safety trainings for scooters also. I'm going to call them.

I would be delighted if you found the fun of riding a scooter. Give it a chance in the spring, until then the weather will force you onto public transport often enough anyway...
I look forward to hearing from you again, and I'd love to see pictures of your Vespa.
I wish you a good time and always a crease-free ride!

Thanks that's so nice!!!!

I was you!!!! I am 49 and own my second VESPA. I have a GTS 300 now for about 1.5 years but prior to owning my current scooter I had an ET4 150cc for 15 years. I bought it when I lived in Manhattan. I was constantly having the same thoughts you are. Riding in NYC really is different than anything else and I personally feel that once you can master that everything else seems dreamy in comparison

It took a few months. I bought it for my birthday and picked it up in April. I remember first few weeks I thought the anxiety was taking away all the joy.

There was a moment when it was just like voila - I've got this and never looked back. It's a muscle memory kind of thing and the bike truly becomes an extension of you. Hard to explain, but with confidence it does and the nimble riding experience in the city is incredible

I have since moved from NYC but work there. I take my GTS to and from all the time. I live in Rockland County. It's about a 30-40 mile trip depending on the route. I love the ride because it has a bit of everything…….it has heavy city riding as well as country riding with some highway and of course the GWB!!!!

I am a member of the NYC VESPA CLUB - great group of very knowledgeable folks. It can be intimidating though because many of them can pretty much build these machines so compared to them I feel like an absolute idiot considering I cannot do any of the mechanics.

If you ever want to ride shoot me a PM. I would love to share my experience with you and show you some cool rides outside Manhattan that may change your perspective

I've been there.

Riding a powered two-wheel vehicle, be it a scooter or a motorcycle, will never be completely free of risk. The best we can do is mitigate that risk as much as possible. That includes rider training, safety gear, complete awareness of what's going on around you, and even developing a sixth-sense about what the bozo ahead of you / behind you / to the side of you is about to do.

I'm not kidding about the sixth sense, either. With experience, you learn to read the conditions around you and you'll find yourself able to predict what is about to happen next.

In any case, I would never counsel someone who is uncomfortable with the nonzero risk to ride in spite of their better instincts. If this is you, well… you might genuinely consider not riding. But if you can reduce the risk to a tolerable level (tolerable for you) then you might find that this is a genuinely enjoyable way to get around.

I basically 2nd what jess said.

if you are coming to 2 wheel commuting fresh, no city bicycle experience. It will take some time to be comfortable. Maybe ease into things, do 1 day every other week and work you way up.

this video from vespa portland does a pretty good job summing up what i learned while bicycle commuting which also applies to 2wheels w a motor.

Eli,

I drive 23 miles one way to work on a freeway that has constant merging from the right and left as it crosses the Twin Cities. The drivers, I observe, are in some cases nutcase dangerous. They don't care they are protected by the four wheel cages they drive. It is kind of a formula of some day I am going to get whacked.

My solution: I quit commuting on two wheels. Minimized my exposure to serious possible personal injury. That doesn't mean you have to quit riding all
together. I still ride recreationally - group rides, to the market and around the neighborhood.

Best of luck. Above posts are excellent information. I do think about the danger every time before I ride. Keeps me on my toes with the six sense stuff earlier suggested.

Keep on scooting - perhaps not to work.

Bob Copeland

Great video! THX!

All good responses, but I'll add a few of my own. It seems like your desire to do this is strong, so I would suggest you stick with it and follow thru with the safety courses, practicing, etc. I would also suggest some reading material: Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate guide to riding well by David L. Hough. This is the book that the MSF courses were pattered after many years ago. Should be at you local library, but I would suggest buying a copy for keeping around. Lastly: being a bit nervous is a healthy thing as long as it is not debilitating. It keeps you sharp and on your toes. Honestly, the day you lose all nervousness and you think you know it all is the day you will get smacked.

I wanted to comment on the "sixth sense" comment and share some real life experience that happened to me this morning. I dropped my vespa off today for some service since it's been 2500 miles since it's last one and I feel like my tires are looking kind of bald. I commuted from Rockland County to White Plains and where the dealer is, I am switching shops so big day!!!

The ride there is a bit hairy, going over Tappan Zee and then on 287 which is a major highway (only for 8 miles) - I found myself thinking about this post while riding, since it's a route I have never taken before and during rush hour!

My sixth sense is always thinking about what is behind me, in front of me and on my sides. When on any highway - i try to stay in right lane just in case for any reason I need to get onto the shoulder. I am always cognizant of what would I do if my bike stalled etc (this is because it has happened twice in the past few months) and I needed to get over - and always do my best to, if possible, be kind of far away from whoever is behind me.

Complete awareness goes without saying, but it's always in my opinion to have an idea of where you would go if bike failed. That's a stressful thing to think about, but I have gotten so used to it that it brings me comfort out there!

Keep riding.

Thanks to everyone for posting! I appreciate it!

I don't know if this makes a difference, but my commute is about 15 minutes all on side streets. No highways, not even eastern parkway.

I was also a bike messenger for many years, so I know about riding in traffic.

Do these things make a difference?

ah. yeah. then i would say you'll be fine.
your city bicycle skills apply here. your're probably more prepared than most.

except you should follow traffic rules /stop lights etc.

There is, in my opinion, no doubt that riding your scooter is more dangerous than some other forms of transportation. As others have said, you can take steps to mitigate the risks somewhat, but the possibility that a driver texting or otherwise not paying attention, or turning left in front of you, or not seeing you in his or her blind spot might cause you serious injury or kill you, remains. Always. Even the most experienced among us is at risk. Like Evans Brasfield recently. Like my friend Larry Grodsky (who wrote the Stayin Safe column for Rider Magazine) years ago. In the end, each of us must decide how much risk we are willing to accept to enjoy all that riding means to each of us individually.

Each of us chooses the level of risk we are willing to accept. I have ridden motorcycles and scooters for many years. I have put a lot of miles on two-wheels including a trip across the US from Boston to Portland. I decided long ago while living in Boston that heavy urban traffic wasn't for me. I picked (and still do pick) routes and times which avoid really heavy traffic. I am at my most comfortable and most enjoy the ride on lightly traveled suburban and scenic rural roads. i ride primarily for enjoyment - and avoid experiences I don't enjoy. Trust your own instincts on this.

All of this reminds me of this quote from the novel Dune.

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

Exposure to fear reduces fear. Avoidance of fear maintains the fear.

People who have great fear of crossing bridges, reduce the fear by doing it over and over. Not easy though.

You can reduce your fear with experience but not the risk.

I was afraid of riding my Vespa on an interstate highway. One day after a long club ride on highways at 60-65, my anxiety was much lower. I turned left onto the interstate entrance ramp. I needed to get home. I road 50 miles on the interstate. Traffic was fairly light. I made it over 80 mph for the first time on that ride. I think the interstate is safer than highways because there are much fewer places to exit and enter.

After that day my anxiety is much less and consistent with the risk.

But it's still risky. I think about the risk somewhat every time I leave my house.

I sent you a PM if you want to ride !

elirosenblatt,

First of all, welcome to MV. Years ago, I experienced Brooklyn rush hour traffic with a brand new vehicle. I was very nervous; I get what you're saying.
I approve of the idea of the riding course - especially given by locals who can teach/advise riders on the nuances of scootering (word?) in and about NYC.
Recreational riding on quiet weekend mornings is another great suggestion. as many have said, it can help familiarize you on what you can and can't yet do.
Conversely, do whatever your better half says - it always worked for me!

Best of luck to you.
Mr. F

Be seen, wear bright colors, don't be the color of the road
Own your part of the road, if you leave cars room to squeeze in they will
Ride in the right part of the left lane & the left part of the right lane, do a long slow weave in the center lane
If you can't see the drivers eyes in their mirrors, they can't see you, don't hang in their blind spot
Avoid commute times if possible, especially on the freeway, commuters on the freeway are especially inattentive, aggressive & dangerous

You have just taken one of the hardest steps by reaching out to other people who don't know you and you don't know them, they have all read you're experience and shared their experience's and advice with you, we are all fellow scooter enthusiasts worldwide but remember we all had to start and gain riding ability just like you are, surely the posts you have received must have boosted your confidence somewhat, the more you get on it and ride it the easier it will become.
And for those who have posted and offered support on this post This is what I enjoy about being part of this forum😉👍

Can you move? There are places in the US and world were motorcycles can be ridden comfortably almost everyday of the year, places where the majority of cars do not want to endanger motorcyclists in any way shape or form, yes some due to liability reasons. Places were many motorists actually give bicycles a wide berth and even move over for motorcycles splitting traffic and scooters are viewed in even a more favorably light than motorcycles. Yes there will always be inattentive drivers and even some reckless A-holes but I will say in areas where people are used to seeing two wheel machines on a regular basis bad behavior is not the norm.

Another thing about NYC is the horrible enforcement of the illegal scooters flying around everywhere. They are making it more dangerous.

Dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!

As someone who rides in New York City, I can tell you that riding in the City takes a lot of concentration and training to stay safe.

By training I mean taking a MSF course, but also reading books such as Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Riding Well by David L. Hough and then applying what you learned every day and every ride and reflecting on a ride to see what you can do better the next time.
You can also find a wealth of online information about topics such as how to brake (yes, even there are many choices and decisions to be made) or how to practice counter steering (this one is a must if you want to keep the rubber on the road.)

It's not that just city riding requires this level of commitment to stay safe, but in dense traffic you will have to make many more decisions per ride when compared to riding without much traffic.

In my experience, riding in challenging conditions such as presented by dense inner city traffic also requires an intense level of concentration on the situation and vehicles around you. I personally find that sometimes my ability to concentrate on the ride is affected by various distractions - be it personal issues, conflicts, health problems, something about the riding conditions, whatever. When I realize I am not concentrating as well as I should, I avoid difficult riding conditions or choose not to ride at all.

Please do yourself and your family a favor. Take a Saftey Course. Two wheels can be a lifetime activity. You may as well learn correctly from the beginning.

Bill

I would like to add something, if I didn't miss someone else saying somewhere else in this thread. And that is, if you aren't feeling up to it, don't ride that day. I don't ascribe to woo-hoo psychic stuff. But if your head is not "in the right place", don't ride. Don't ride upset, distracted, or angry. If you have a feeling something isn't right, don't ride. This goes along with what other posters are saying, you have to be on your game. If you aren't feeling up to it, you can't be on your A game. Just my two cents.

Hi. I appreciate your post and was in the same mindset myself. There is no doubt riding on 2 wheels is more dangerous than on 4. However I also feel that a rational approach to the risks is warranted. There are many activities that can be dangerous including hiking, skiing and pickle ball. Only you can decide what your risk tolerance is.
Initially after getting my Vespa GTS I find it intimidating with its weight and throttle response. It's also not the best on NY (Westchester) highways. Then, against my wife's wish I bought a 500+lbs motorcycle to ride on the highways. With time I came to appreciate the Vespa for its simplicity and became more comfortable with its weight and performance. Now I see the Vespa as a safer alternative to bicycling in NY streets. It has headlights, turn signals and horn all superior to a bicycle, not to mention the protective gears I wear. I've also developed an algorithm to decide when, what and where I ride as well as how much gear I need while riding (with or without airbag vests). I imagine you too will develop a system to decide when you should not be on 2 wheels. (Ice on the road for example.)
You may decide that there is never an appropriate time to be on 2 wheels which is how most people think, and that would be fine as well.

The OP says he bought his new 150 for commuting. For most folks that means Monday through Friday. If he bought this as his commuter vehicle and feels off some morning, what then?

That really limits it as a commuter doesn't it.

Riding any two wheeled vehicle in inherently more dangerous than driving around in a car or truck.

There simply isn't the protective envelop around you.

But I ride anyway because what would usually be a boring trip becomes fun and entertaining when riding a scooter.

I mitigate the danger by always being aware of my surroundings.

I ride like I drive a car.

That is I ride with the surrounding traffic, traveling at their speed while always being aware of my position related to them.

But even riding as carefully and aware as possible, there will always be times when that doesn't work.

I have had six of my friends killed while riding over the past 30 years.

The last one, apparently while sitting on his motorcycle at a traffic light and being taken out by a distracted driver.

So weigh the risks and make your decision based on the reality of the situation.

I choose to ride.

Bill