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I have a German market Rally 200. I bought it from a widow of a friend that passed away. I never saw this bike on the road.

Unknown to me upon purchase, the flywheel side case was broken and welded at the bearing race area. It leaks through the lubrication hole for the flyside bearing. This, proper repair is impossible unless I want to do a lot of surgery. Even then, this area is still thin and any porosity kinda kills your work.

What would you do? Ideally I would like to keep these non oil injection cases for this non US market Rally; matching cases to the chassis.

Sand the surface and apply a thin coat of Devcon aluminum putty? Boy I do not like this option for one not being very professional, but the other for not having a lot of confidence in this bandaid repair.

Should I throw in the towel and buy a set of Malossi PX200 cases? What parts of the gearbox transfer over from Rally 200/P200E?
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Quote:
This, proper repair is may be impossible unless I want to do a lot of surgery. Even then, this area is still thin and any porosity kinda kills your work.
Fixed that for you.

I don't know man... You are one of the few people here that I think could actually pull that repair off. We would all love to watch ya try anyway. And, if it goes tits up ...you still have the option of going with other cases.
I say try and shoot the moon.
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Fixing castings with porosity by sealing with vacuum or pressure impregnation is a usual practice to salvage otherwise useable parts. It is commonly done both on new castings and to salvage older parts.
You can learn more here :
https://morelindustries.com/porosity-sealing-metal-casting-foundry-service-company

and

https://www.godfreywing.com/blog/how-to-seal-die-casting-porosity

You may be able to get it done locally or maybe source a good sealant and try doing it yourself. When I was working we used something called 'MicroSeal' I think, usually just brushing it on the affected area and depending on capillary action, but probably better if you could rig up some kinda pressure or vacuum.
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Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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Ossessionato
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UTC quote
Birdsnest wrote:
Fixed that for you.

I don't know man... You are one of the few people here that I think could actually pull that repair off. We would all love to watch ya try anyway. And, if it goes tits up ...you still have the option of going with other cases.
I say try and shoot the moon.
+1 on every word of this. If there was anyone to pull this off, it'd be you. May the Vespa Force be with you Popcorn emoticon
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I'd give it a go with an epoxy, either Devcon, Loctite EA 3478 or an another high temp epoxy sealant. You could set a patch of 6 or 4oz fiberglass cloth into the epoxy for added strength. If the surface is prepared properly, there's no reason it shouldn't hold up.

Epoxies have come a long way. They're used in super colliders and space shuttles. They'll work in our scoots.
⚠️ Last edited by SoCalGuy on UTC; edited 1 time
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Johnny Two Tone
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throwing in the towel and buying cases is so not Gickspeed, repair is the only choice
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Repair. You have the means and the skills...
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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sdjohn wrote:
throwing in the towel and buying cases is so not Gickspeed, repair is the only choice
This is the way.... Razz emoticon
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Johnny Two Tone
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personally I wonder if his account got hacked just because the question was asked.... ROFL emoticon
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sdjohn wrote:
personally I wonder if his account got hacked just because the question was asked.... ROFL emoticon
Add to it the rotary pad is not the best and the clutch side keyway is bad.

maybe i should repair this one AND build another engine.
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GickSpeed wrote:
Add to it the rotary pad is not the best and the clutch side keyway is bad.

maybe i should repair this one AND build another engine.
You can build an entire set of cases from aluminum weld. those extra issues are like catnip for you - impossible to resist.
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UTC quote
Quote:
Add to it the rotary pad is not the best and the clutch side keyway is bad.
Epoxy the rotary pad, or weld up and machine it!
And your clutchside keyway is not in the case, Shirley?
SoCalGuy wrote:
I'd give it a go with an epoxy, either Devcon, Loctite EA 3478 or an another high temp epoxy sealant. You could set a patch of 6 or 4oz fiberglass cloth into the epoxy for added strength. If the surface is prepared properly, there's no reason it shouldn't hold up.

Epoxies have come a long way. They're used in super colliders and space shuttles. They'll work in our scoots.
Try Loctite, but I'd use Loctite 290 to take advantage of its capillary action.
Quote:
LOCTITE® 290 is a green, medium-high strength threadlocker designed for the locking and sealing of threaded fasteners. Because of its low viscosity, the product wicks between engaged threads by capillary action and eliminates the need for disassembly prior to application. This behavior makes the product also suitable for sealing porosities in welds, castings and powdered metal parts. The anaerobic adhesive cures when confined in the absence of air between close-fitting metal surfaces and prevents loosening and leakage due to shock and vibration.
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UTC quote
I was gonna say, you da Boss. Why you asking us underlings how to do this? Laughing emoticon
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Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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JG -
That area is a bear.
Heat can distort and warp - which is no friend to aligning main bearings nicely.
Having both welded and bonded - I am a fan of bonding for that area.

Two reasons:
1. Impossibly thin and thick
2. You could win the battle (stop the leak) but loose the war (crank shaft alignment).

To overcome with mine - I actually cut away material - and created an insert on my lathe - that allowed big bonding surfaces and sheer rather than tensile strength.

Somewhere around page 80 on my thread if you're interested.
Here is a pic of the insert bonded in place.
The insert is slightly undersized as noted - allowing for a margin for the epoxy - and self alignment when assembling before curing.

Your situation is a little different - but in short - taking away material to the point you can apply a robust insert with large bonding surfaces, might be better than trying to patch.
Crack I was dealing with
Crack I was dealing with
Insert in place
Insert in place
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A lot, if not all, of my leaking is through the lubrication hole to the bearing.

Using a little compressed air through the bearing lubrication hole, I get bubbles coming out where the black arrow is pointing on photo 2.
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Nedminder
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Uhg.
Better understand now.
I had this too.
Here's what I learned if any use:

I tried and failed to fix with epoxy.
Too much torque and stress on that spot - do not think it will hold up as a repair.

Then I welded - but I was too timid with my approach - just grinding back the metal a little and patching.
Hand full of issues included
1. Contamination from oil hole entering weld
2. Crack radiated down into hole so didn't get it all
3. After some use, crack grew (you can see it even broke through the inside of the oil hole in my pic.
4. Hard to weld into a narrow ditch

FWIW, if I had to do again, I would start at the end by grinding a large open V where the oil hole is.
Aggressively enough so I could build up weld easily.
Weld up from inner and outer sides of the case.
Machine surfaces back.
Re drill oil hole.

Part of the reason I put the insert in was to stop my weld from receiving so much force from the crank turning and pounding on it with each stroke - but I think it could have been ok if I had just gone after it more aggressively out of the gate with a generous grind back.

Tough one - but seen your work - so know if anyone can pull it off it's u.
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UTC quote
Advice coming from a guy who can't weld anything right, but is old enough to know better: Go for it. If it doesn't work, maybe you wasted some time. If it does work, good. But if it does work and you learned something new along the way, Fantastic!
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If you are welding, would you put a crank in and put the cases together to minmise distortion?
⬆️    About 1 month elapsed    ⬇️
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I was able to chase the case issue and i had some air coming out of the cylinder stud hole adjacent the stator. Never would have thought that . . . but there you go.

I added a new FEMSA crankshaft. I wanted to use Tameni, but out of stock. Mezz it is.

With all that trouble shooting, it still would not idle right on the test stand. no amount of carb adjustment/carb cleaning would get me there. that had me thinking for a day if it's a bad carb body .. . so mounted a Pinasco 24.24 ER and problems went away and this engine has never ran better. what an unbelievable change really. I took it out all evening and went downtown.

At some point, a healthy set of non-injection rally 200 cases will come available and will pick them up to rebuild it in the future. Probably European market.

in the meantime, i have been building a 100% new engine for this bike based off Malossi V-one cases and a Malossi 210 cylinder. every part is new and nothing left on the table. some photos, but will update later.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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UTC quote
Beautiful. Nice save.
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SoCalGuy wrote:
Beautiful. Nice save.
more so results from a bad carb body. i have temporarily repairs on the case but will look for a set of non-injected Rally 200 cases to do the job right.
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How did you repair the case?
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Good sorting!

That malossi build is crazy cool.
Need more of that!
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orwell84 wrote:
How did you repair the case?
they are not fully repaired, but functional. Near the seal were they busted the bearing seat and welded i simply sanded a bit there and added Devon aluminum putty. Near the cylinder stud i used Three Bond Case Sealant. The proper repairs are so invasive that i will just wait for a decent set of non injection Rally cases to pop up. It's not like they are Miller/Offenhauser block.
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