Modern Vespa

A bit of background: I have a working GTS that I purchased 2 months ago. It's a great bike, is a good commuter bike and good for long club rides etc. After a recent club ride with GTS and PX Vespas I am inspired to get one of my 3 2T Vespa back on the road.

I am trying to weigh up what to do with my Rally that has been laid up on blocks since 2011 in the garage. It's clean and has been registered here in Australia before so will be simple to register. It would of course need new tyres etc. i had thought I would need to pull the engine and replace seals bearings etc before getting it registered again. I have all the parts to do the rebuild but of course that will take some time.

Having taken a look at the inside of the tank and it is pristine, there isn't any old sticky petrol residue in the tank. I think I did make sure I stored it properly all those years ago.

It makes me wonder if I can just get some petrol and oil and start it up. What are the risks ? If the seals are still good and the engine runs is there anything to worry about?

Nope. Nothing to worry about. Itll work, or it wont!

I'd definitely pull the clutch and unstick the plates if its been sitting since 2011. Other than that, fresh lubes on all, fresh gas and give it a go.

potentially, you could have an air leak due to dried out seals or gaskets and air leaks can lead to lean condition and thus a seize.

it's likely clutch plates are totally stuck together from sitting.

I mean you could go totally doomsday and be like a bearing might lock up because of some crud in it, or a fuel leak will cause a fire or you'll totally wreck the motor.

but honestly, I'd go thru the carb, put a new fuel line in it, check the clutch and sort that if need be and run it till the seals puke and then jump in there and commence with the rebuild.

pull the plug and put some 2T or other lube down there and kick it over real easy a few times just to make sure nothing's stuck and get some slippery stuff on the moving bits. then just go for it.

+1 to Greasy

You honestly may not even need to pull the clutch. Once you get it started, work the clutch with it running to bathe them in fresh oil and they may unstick themselves. It could take ten minutes or so, but even if you wind up having to pull the clutch, you'd probably spend ten minutes messing with it while it ran on the stand anyway.

The one thing to remember is that if you start to have any signs of an air leak or lean condition (e.g. hunting when returning to idle, any sort of high rev's, etc.), then it's time to split the cases and replace the seals, because it's only going to get more expensive to repair if you just hope it'll fix itself.

Thanks All (greasy, MJrally & Chandlerman)

Will give a startup a go and report back. I will keep a good eye on it for signs of air leaks.

IF it starts up OK I can lightly use this bike, for city rides etc , while I finish restoring my 2 smallframes and then I can do the rally engine after that. 50% of my bikes vs 25% of my bikes running sounds better.

this is not the way of the vintage...

Where you at in Australia? I'm in Melbourne with a Rally, if I can help with anything let me know.

Yea sure I am in Melbourne.

I know but I can at least try.

Progress report

I extracted the bike from the wooden frame that had protected it today.

Very dusty and much of the bright work has rust spots on it, despite being covered and inside a garage all the time. Things like the speedo lens has gone yellow and the repro horn and leg shield trim has got rust spots on it. Rubber parts like the kick start rubber and carb bellows have perished too, this may not be good news as seals may have perished too. Very old and hard zippy 1s took air ok, but have to be replaced.

I took the spark plug out and it didn't look pretty, gap was about 1 mm and the electrode looks like it has seen better days. The engine is free so at least can proceed to next steps.

I have bought a new b7es spark plug and will add some 2t oil down the piston before kicking it over tomorrow with some 95 octane petrol. Will let you know if it works.

Good stuff! Interesting CDI/ignition coil setup there I just did the conversion to Ducati ignition on mine, I can help you with that if you want to do it in the future.

I found that the coils on the repro FEMSA boxes 15 years ago tended to blow pretty easily. It's a Bajaj coil in its place that was a little more robust and easy to replace. A neater solution would have been to cut the blown coil off the bracket and put the bajaj one on there.

I have a new repro femsa box for it but if my old bodge works while I am seeing if it the seals are ok I will leave it on. Given that it was blowing coils probably means there is some wear in the crankshaft bearing which they are notorious for. I will have to rebuild the engine eventually I suspect.

It started 5th kick. To my no longer trained ear it sounds ok. Any warning signs there you can hear?

[url] I have lots of recommissioning issues to sort out. Lots of perished rubber, plastic and chrome bits that need attention.

I can't try and ride it right now as the shock mount at the rear separated so need a new one of them.

Sounds great.

You might want to rev the engine as see what happens.

But 11 years is a long time for seals. But I'd ride it and take it one step at a time.

So I had to wait for a really slow delivery from a certain Munich based scooter shop. I have begun to go thru the list of jobs to get the bike recommissioned. First jobs have been replacing the 20 year old zippy 1's with some new Pirelli's. I found one of my grandpa's old tire levers which must have been made from an old car spring. It did short work of splitting the rims, that's one tool that I am adding to my collection.

Sounds good! Check you gear oil, slap on those new shoes and see what happens.

I have a list of jobs on it to do. Checked the brake drums front and rear. Front was pretty good and clean, rear needed a deglaze with some 80grit. Torqued up the axle nuts and put on new split pins.

I drained the gear oil, it had a faint smell of petrol and was definitely in need of a change. It was a light brown colour.

I didn't have enough time to try and ride it about to see how free the clutch was. It will engage ok, could be smoother perhaps. Will do a sneaky street ride next week. I have new clutch plates in my stash so can rebuild if I need to.

I am going to go around the bike torquing bolts. The exhaust joint at the cylinder has sprayed muck over the swing arm so will see if the exhaust needs tightening.

It starts ok still but I didn't have time to take it up to high revs yet.

If the oil smells like gas, you're going to be replacing that clutch side seal sooner than later. Maybe much sooner if it's leaking enough to thin the oil.

I'd avoid getting too crazy unless you're planning on installing a new top end and maybe crank when you split it.

Thanks that's good advice.

I have been thinking about the oil over the weekend and you have helped me come to the conclusion that a rebuild is required rather than to run it for a short while and risk damaging an original engine.

I was trying to get a running bike on the road so I think I will turn my attention back to my nearly finished et3. I am going to get the et3 sorted and registered and then pull the engine on the rally. I have most of the parts I need for the rally engine: seals , bearings, crank, carb , clutch and primary kits etc but don't quite have the space and time for an engine rebuild in next few months.

As I am close to completing my ET3 and am now into planning mode for my FEMSA rally engine rebuild as it's seals are toast.

I have already bought a cache of parts including seals, bearings, gaskets and a new femsa crank as I am planning on keeping it close to stock.

My original plan was to build a totally new femsa stator for the bike from all the available replacement components. After learning my lesson on my et3 on the electrical side I figured I should get some opinions before I make the jump.

I am going to be in the uk for nearly a month so plan to source parts while I am there.

Option 1. Restore it as full femsa
Using my existing flywheel and a new femsa repro Cdi I have already it would cost about 420 AUD to do that if a bought all the stator components separately and installed it on a spare backing plate I have. I would have a FEMSA bike and it would retain its original feel.

Downside is it remains 6V and eventually the crank bearing will wear and the same old FEMSA bugs will reappear down the line.

Option 2. 2nd series crank and bearing conversion
Vape does this for about 760 aud all in. Get 12 v and have choice of ac or dc.

Downside it is not a FEMSA rally anymore.

Option 3. Use a vape system for a femsa setup
https://ygros-race.vercel.app/ this is similar price to the conversion sip kit. Same benefits as sip vape kit.

Good thing about this is I already have a brand new crank and it remains an easy step to go back to FEMSA kit if I wanted to.

Has anyone had any experience with this ygros kit? And what does the wider group think about the 3 options?


Rallygeek

I have a 76 US Rally. When I bought it it had the CEAD after-market Femsa CDI, which worked fine with the original flywheel/stator. Original regulator and battery too. I rewired the stator pigtail once to replace the old rotting wiring. Otherwise no issues.

Recently after sitting for many months, it would not start. I figured out that the CDI was dead, so I replaced it with a Ducati using the mod described here: http://www.vespa-klub.dk/Rally_CDI.HTM

I didn't make a little PCB for it, I just wired up the required parts using solder, spade connectors, and heat shrink. It worked perfectly the first time. This allowed me to keep my Femsa stator. It was a cheap drop-in solution. Have you considered this?

I'm happy my bike is otherwise basically original, all lights and indicators work, and it will probably be good for another 10-20 years on this setup, unless the regulator finally gives out.

I would be happy to help you out with making the mod adapter described on that page, if you want to try this solution. It would cost you a lot less than $420.

That is an option as I could try it before spending on a vape system. When I got the bike in 2002 it had a Ducati Cdi but not set up in a way that worked.

The 450 aud was the cost of making up a 'brand new' stator from the spare backing plates and new pickup, coils x 3 and resistor for the femsa setup.

I rebuilt the current stator 20 years ago when those parts weren't available and I put together 1 working stator from 3. That stator has burnt out a few cdi's in its time. It was always the coil that died so I just used a bajaj coil with the ceab box in the end. I figured that the crank bearing wear was probably the cause which is why it will all be replaced as part of the rebuild.

I will send you a dm to connect.

So I notice Beedspeed here in UK has one of these on its site.

https://beedspeed.com/products/electronic-ignition-ht-coil-cdi-converter-rally-to-ducati


I might get one.

That's fine. It will be the same thing I can make for AUD $1, just in a nice box. I'm a little surprised that the stator itself would develop any problems, as the components are all basically inert. Just coils of wire and some resistors. Anyway, happy to help if I can.

Quite a bit did go wrong with my original stator and I pieced a working one together from other second hand ones so it's OK but not as good as I'd like it to be.

DON'T!!!

I mean don't not get one, just don't get it from Beedspeed. They used to be great, now people are avoiding them like the plague and for good reason - either the stuff is in stock and it takes months to get to you, or it's not in stock and it takes months and months to get to you, if at all. The UK scooter people get stung by them all the time.

Thanks Ginch

I had used them years ago and they weren't very good then either. Will steer clear.