Modern Vespa

Hello!


I'm eyeing with these shiny new LML cases on eBay.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/144648114319?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=Jh6rmKXETLi&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=gf_13q-ereg&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY


My case is a bodge and it seems I couldn't manage to de-bodge it. So I maybe try out a new case.


SIP discontinued these LML cases but they're still available in India.

Always wanted to buy these cases just to mess around with.

As an experiment on the 177 kits. Would be a fun one.

Won't be buying a largeframe anytime soon… (famous last words…)

I have rebuilt one LML engine and taken apart a spare used e-bay engine that came with the bike. Both cases were in great condition. It's usually recommended to use better quality bearings than those supplied by LML. Also, keep in mind that the LML autolube reed block can be hard to find. The cases have been used by a number of forum members for successful performance builds.

Is there anything special about these cases build-wise which is LML-specific?


Anything which is different than a late Super/Sprint early PX engine and have to be careful about.


Actually I'd run it the old school way with pre-mix fuel and without starter.


Will I need to macgyver around the rotary pad tolerance?

There is no rotary pad as it uses a reed valve. Aftermarket non-autolube reed blocks that fit are easy to find. That is the biggest difference.

Sorry, I didn't know.



I see that the CDI mount is perpendicular to the non-starter CDI mount. Is there an adapter to mount a SIP Vape CDI?

The cases in the Ebay link don't look to be the reed valve version but the rotary version. I've done many, many builds on these LML (although reed valve) cases and the quality has always been good. Like was said before go with good bearings and you're in great shape.

Couldn't you just stick the LML reed valve manifold on the rotary valve cases? Would it just mate up? It's hard to tell from the photos. The Indian sellers are really bad at telling prospective buyers on eBay what exactly they are buying.

I would say that some of the photos I see on eBay suggest not great casting, at least the exteriors seem a bit pebbly. That said, I have two LML engines and they work great (with bearing/crank changes).

They are PX cases so have the needle roller on the flywheel side. That's not possible.

LML made castings that were pretty good generally. My question is who is casting these new cases, if they are new? LML have been gone for a few years now.

I can't comment on the rotary version, but I've done a number of builds using LML or Stella reed cases over the years. You can build some crazy motors using the reed version if you wanna go down that road.

Maybe NOS.

One more thing:


As I see it has the brown metal oil seal at the clutch side.


But which driveshaft oil seal will I need if I put on a 8" rear wheel? 30x47x6?

Not sure about the size or whether the case is rotary or reed. Either is workable.

I would wait to have the case in hand before ordering parts. My LML cases are maybe a little rougher and probably not as nicely finished as Piaggo cases. But never anything that resulted in poor fit or required me to clean up or rework. Definitely nothing that would make me avoid using LML cases in the future.

I agree with Ginch. Given the source, there is almost zero chance those cases are both authentic LML and new. I've learned the hard way that Indian ebay stuff tends to be remanfactured goods or knock-offs of inferior quality.

If you do go forward, pay with a credit card so you can dispute the charge if necessary.

Why do I think I got scammed?

It's a crapshoot for sure. There are some Indian eBay vendors that a number of forum members have had success with. I'm sure someone could give you a name.

I've bought stuff successfully a couple times and it was always from sellers with tens of thousands of positive feedback counts.

I purchased a brand new LML engine (non-injected) when Scooterwest had them for $899 a few years back and I love mine. It is very quiet, it starts on the first kick and it idles very smooth. It comes with a heavier flywheel but is all good because it is easier to pull in first.

The only thing that failed was the clutch basket ring that it popped out of place after sitting in a shed for 3 years. I put a new ring but it kept popping so I upgraded to a cosa clutch.

Now it runs a Malossi 177cc and it is fast.

Believe or not, I got it in the mail today.






Later I will unbox.

Oh ye of little faith!

Very interested to see what's inside!

I did the unboxing just now. See it for yourself.


https://youtu.be/eHkgqwPvnuo?si=iJ3vkDFKRnEV9nL0



Actually I don't think it's a new case and it's definitely the reed valve version. The VIN is stamped and I assume it's painted silver on the outside.



It's a good case but sure it's not new.

It's been a long time since they were new!!!

I do have to say that the painted bearings are quite attractive however... might try that on my next 15-minute "restoration".

Not new, but not bad.

Unless they have been machined off, there should be numbers stamped on either side of the face where the cylinder base gasket sits. It would be better if those numbers matched.

These days, LML reed equals premix unless you already have an autolube reed block at hand. New ones are no longer available.

I presume you will be replacing those bearings.

Yes, I run everything on pre-mix and AC voltage.


Actually this is the first time I have this case in hand (I got used to those old Piaggio cases) and I still can't figure out how to mount a SI carb onto this if it's possible.


And the CDI? Where to mount the CDI?



Yes, I took out all the bearings and bushings. Washed off that lovely paint with some thinner.

you need this to run a SI carb: https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/reed-valve-block-lml_40311000

for the CDI, are you running a VAPE? then here: https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/bracket-electronic-unit-sip-e-start-hole-vape_17950600

or here for DUCATI type cdi (you have to drill the holes): https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/bracket-electronic-unit_17950400

don't forget the hardware to go with either bracket: https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/mounting-kit-electronic-unit-sip-vape_17910410

So I mean I have to drill two holes to that flat surface next to the starter cutout?


I'm looking this video:


He takes off the reed block and the carb casing. And some autolube stuff. Any carb casing can be used? Even from a '70s Piaggio bike? And there are some small gear shafts that he pulls off from the clutch housing so that hole needs to be sealed up? Otherwise I think it will spit some gearbox oil.

yes. drill two holes to that flat area for PX Ducati style cdi bracket.

you will need some plugs to fill those holes if your LML cases are machined for oil injection.

Pretty good, but personally I'd open a dispute and ask at least for a partial refund since they're not the ones advertised and not even new...

What are your plans for the engine stock or performance? If performance I would consider a MMW reedblock with a 26 or 28 phbh carb so much easier to tune and improved performance.

This

I'd target a build that needs a bigger carb, but I have issues like that, so don't pay too much attention to me...

I second this, go for broke! I built a devastatingly fast Quattrini motor on a set of these cases. With that stock inlet it's a golden opportunity for fastness. Be cool, be fast.

I have a set of those cases with a BGM177 and a whole lot of other go-fast. It's a beast.

I checked it. One side says 200 and the other is off the edge and I can see 00 only.

the numbers don't even match in how they are stamped, much less being the same number. i don't have a good feeling on that.

There have been discussions about mismatched case halfs in the past. I don't think it's a death sentence, just suboptimal. I asked mostly because it is the kind of thing I expect from Indian eBay vendors and wanted see if expectations were met.

I wouldn't worry about whether or not the halves match. Those cases were in somebody's scoot for a long time based on the motor mounts.

The odds that dude found two used, mismatched cases with the last two digits matching seems a lot lower than that they came out of a dead LML motor and he was able to sell them to you for the cost of a can of silver spray paint.

He made them match (sort of) because the stamps are from different tools

For comparison, here are the numbers off a couple sets of LML/Stella cases I have lying around.

Zeros look the same shape on both, probably not punched hard on the flywheel side. Anyways, main problem is they sold you used, painted and different cases than advertised…

Photo is my 2005 LML/Stella.