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I was able to obtain more pictures of the 63 Vespa 150 sidecar. As many have mentioned in the original thread, this is most likely a SEA bike.
Being a complete newb to scoots (but 35+ year motorcyclist) I admit to knowing nothing about them. But I think it's very cool and would be fun to scoot around town and to the local vintage bike nights.
Assuming it's a SEA bike, what is a reasonable price to pay? I love to wrench, so that's not a problem.
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If it's a genuine for sure 100% legit SEA scooter and sidecar, then it will have a VERY high resale value. Probably worth around $10~$15k! If it's high quality restoration that was done in either in italy, UK, or the US, then except it to not be worth nearly as much. Maybe closer to $5~$6k. No, i'm not joking about those prices.
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ROFL emoticon ROFL emoticon ROFL emoticon
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that thing is a money pit.


Motocafe-

I'm in Indianapolis. I have an American market Vespa P200E for sale. I've rebuilt everything on it. . and i mean everything. Turn key with title. Pick it up in Indy and ride it back to Columbus, Ohio. Hit me up.
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Whatdatschrome has jokes. Probably best to avoid that SEA bike.
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Birdsnest wrote:
Whatdatschrome has jokes. Probably best to avoid that SEA bike.
Yup. There are two main risks to riding this to a vintage bike night:

1) It'll break down before you get there
2) You make it there and everyone who knows the first thing about Vespas laughs at or trolls you.
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suspicions confirmed.

unless this was stupidly cheap, like $10 and a burrito levels of coin it's a hard pass.

the side car is the only thing worth anything, and even then it's kind of a crap design.

so if you were to buy it and flip the side car and sell off the body to some store/restaurant for a few bucks and fund another project
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GickSpeed wrote:
that thing is a money pit.


Motocafe-

I'm in Indianapolis. I have an American market Vespa P200E for sale. I've rebuilt everything on it. . and i mean everything. Turn key with title. Pick it up in Indy and ride it back to Columbus, Ohio. Hit me up.
Curious eyes would really like to see this P

Just for comparison's sake
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greasy125 wrote:
suspicions confirmed.

unless this was stupidly cheap, like $10 and a burrito levels of coin it's a hard pass.

the side car is the only thing worth anything, and even then it's kind of a crap design.

so if you were to buy it and flip the side car and sell off the body to some store/restaurant for a few bucks and fund another project
Yeah they're still churning out those sidecars in Vietnam/thailand.

I receive a message every other week about them for sale.

Not worth anything in my opinion.

I think the scariest thing here is a questionable SEA bike with a lead weight attached to it… I'm not sure I'd want to break down in that thing.
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Kimono32 wrote:
Curious eyes would really like to see this P

Just for comparison's sake
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That's money Jonathan.
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Does it come with the donuts?
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chandlerman wrote:
Does it come with the donuts?
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whodatschrome wrote:
If it's a genuine for sure 100% legit SEA scooter and sidecar, then it will have a VERY high resale value. Probably worth around $10~$15k! If it's high quality restoration that was done in either in italy, UK, or the US, then except it to not be worth nearly as much. Maybe closer to $5~$6k. No, i'm not joking about those prices.
Hear me out. Buy it. Give the paint a real professional buff out and wax. Put it up for sale on BaT. $15K easy?
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motocafe wrote:
I was able to obtain more pictures of the 63 Vespa 150 sidecar. As many have mentioned in the original thread, this is most likely a SEA bike.
Being a complete newb to scoots (but 35+ year motorcyclist) I admit to knowing nothing about them. But I think it's very cool and would be fun to scoot around town and to the local vintage bike nights.
Assuming it's a SEA bike, what is a reasonable price to pay? I love to wrench, so that's not a problem.
I would go for Mr. Gick's nicely sorted P all day long. The perfect scooter for a newbie.The SEA scoot is likely to have issues way beyond what a wrench could solve.
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orwell84 wrote:
The SEA scoot is likely to have issues way beyond what a wrench could solve.
But not beyond what a car crusher could solve...
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garncarz wrote:
Hear me out. Buy it. Give the paint a real professional buff out and wax. Put it up for sale on BaT. $15K easy?
^^^Exactly!
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Tuff crowd here, huh motocafe? But they know of what they speak. All tallied up here, it's probably hundreds of years of valuable experience and expertise talking.

I'd pick the P. What a great opportunity to get a beautifully tuned and repaired scoot that you can trust.

The other package looks kinda fun at first (inexperienced) glance, but I bet its allure would quickly fade as problems surface and add up to lots of $$$.

Regardless, welcome to MV and good luck!

Gickspeed—thanks for satisfying my curiosity. Looks great! Especially the donuts Razz emoticon
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Kimono32 wrote:
Tuff crowd here, huh motocafe?
I was thinking earlier this afternoon we probably scared him off, which is a bummer and totally Our Bad.
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chandlerman wrote:
I was thinking earlier this afternoon we probably scared him off, which is a bummer and totally Our Bad.
Um, well, maybe. You weren't exactly gentle, haha. But if he's truly got the Vespa bug, he will prob appreciate the brutal honesty and will return for solid mechanical assistance and the ever-present humorous cameraderie.
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Price or value?

About $2 per km it has travelled
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You mentioned having a lot of motorcycle experience, is any of it w/ a sidecar? If not I would suggest that you WILL love riding 2 wheel scooters a lot for their convenience and style, and perhaps their quirks... BUT even if it was solid & wasn't from SEA I would recommend that you avoid a sidecar rig to start because they are a lot harder to setup right AND generally slower, worse braking and much less nimble.

That is unless you have the talent of this guy who knows a thing or two about sidecars. 99 pages of required reading and counting on how to do it right: Vintage vespa with sidecar (**Now In Technicolor ! **)

Meanwhile, you might be wanting something more "vintage", but coming from a motorcycle I know you would love the reliable power of that P200 in Indianapolis...
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I've always been intrigued by sidecars, but after CharlieMan built the Orange Unicorn, I don't think I'd ever be satisfied with a normal sidecar.... Razz emoticon
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chandlerman wrote:
I was thinking earlier this afternoon we probably scared him off, which is a bummer and totally Our Bad.
accurate
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Thanks everyone for the brutally honest input. I'm not at all worried about the mechanics or the age. I've owned and worked on heaps of vintage and modern motorcycles over the decades.
But I have never owned a sidecar.
Most of you are saying stay away, and I respect that. But I'm here because I happened upon a very quirky older gentleman with some old scoots in his warehouse, and I may have an opportunity to pick up this side hack (and possibly a couple other scoots).
It's a work-in-progress relationship, and one that must be taken very slowly and gently. I know that may seem cryptic but remember, this gentleman is quite quirky.
I realize hacks are not canyon carvers or drag racers. I'm not looking for that - I've had those before. I'm drawn to the aesthetics of this bike, but want to make sure I don't overpay (because I'm completely new in this space). So please understand that I'm assuming it's a SEA bike, and I'm fine if it is.
So with all that said, what is a reasonable price range to pay for what looks to be a low mileage SEA hack in relatively decent condition (assuming the motor is workable without replacing serious hardware)?
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Hey MotoCafe - my opinion? Do what you will. I've seen these things up close and they are scary in ways you don't know, especially if you dont have any experience with an actual decent Vespa that hasn't been cluged together.

To your question - anywhere from 200 to 700 dollars. Or $12k to 15k at Bring-A-Trailer.....

Also, have you seen the Bodge thread?
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The pretty look gets them all the time. Inside doesn't mean anything if the outside is pretty or has nice "aesthetics". Ever work on a bike that was worked on by someone in a 3rd world and was dolled up to look nice. This is the bike.
Because it's from SEA "assume" the motor is from trash to maybe save the cases". Because its from SEA assume scoot has a lot of bondo and wields and ts trash. Because its from SEA and that market has not sold an abundance of scooters in a long time, it has not run in decades. You're basically buying an Indian sidecar to go on another scooter. $1500 to $2k and taking chances on the sidecar subframe. Skills, time and money can solve a lot of problems but there are better options.
I personally would not trust to buy scoots from someone with this in their stable and not inform anyone on the truth of what this thing really is.
Good luck!
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motocafe wrote:
Thanks everyone for the brutally honest input. I'm not at all worried about the mechanics or the age. I've owned and worked on heaps of vintage and modern motorcycles over the decades.
having experience with motorcycles or vintage mechanics will help you little here. some of these things are essentially hand built. cobbled together just enough to pop and fart and make an appearance at running.

"air filters" made from window screen and wire, rusty nails as cotter pins, welded forks, coke can shims, flat ass worn out pieces welded back together and "machined" to "tolerance", cases so beat up and gacked out that they never seal, and the list goes on and on and on.
Quote:
i'm drawn to the aesthetics of this bike, but want to make sure I don't overpay (because I'm completely new in this space). So please understand that I'm assuming it's a SEA bike, and I'm fine if it is.
we get the whole aesthetics thing, but you need to go in with eyes wide open. shiny paint and flashy chrome hides a multitude of sins.

anything more than what you would pay to have it as a store front display, lawn art or conversation piece in flex space is an overpay.
Quote:
So with all that said, what is a reasonable price range to pay for what looks to be a low mileage SEA hack in relatively decent condition (assuming the motor is workable without replacing serious hardware)?
there is no such thing as a low mileage SEA bike. they all have tremendous amounts of mileage on them and are frequently stitched together or poorly repaired.

have a look here at this thread: New member saying hi
at first blush, that doesn't look too bad. but then look at the pictures of inside and where the rear shock mounts. that's big and ugly stuff.

I would assume zero-point-zero on a SEA bike. I would expect to probably replace the motor, more than likely the cables and wiring. and then spend maddeningly amounts of time sorting out hand built controls, replacing basic safety items like split pins because there's rusty nails in place instead, all kinds of BS hardware that's wrong, broken or just scary.

you think I'm exaggerating? check this out then: https://thevespawizard.com.au/Asian%20Imports.htm and https://www.thevespawizard.com.au/the_black_vbb.htm

so how much to spend? go in the back yard with a 5 gallon bucket and start pitching $20 bills in, at the point which you would feel sick if you had to light that on fire, that's how much to spend. now, that number? double it easily for the amount of money you're going to spend getting it road ready and reliable.

there's a reason that bike is parked up and not out running around.

could it be a hidden gem? maybe. but it's very, very unlikely. without seeing the motor, the motor & frame numbers, and an close inspection of the frame it's safe to say it's probably just as bad as all the rest.
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I'd be more inclined to go this route...

https://portland.craigslist.org/clk/mcy/d/longview-1980-vespa-p200e-with/7698466827.html
Not as flashy, but more of a chance of a runner...
Not as flashy, but more of a chance of a runner...
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Who has the video of the rusty scooter being pulled out of a field, cleaned up, filled with body filler and being painted?

This one is being shown off on YouTube, my favorite parts are brake pads being painted, parts being beat out of engine with hammer and reusing original bearings. Notice tools to measure anything never showed up on bench.

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motocafe wrote:
So with all that said, what is a reasonable price range to pay for what looks to be a low mileage SEA hack in relatively decent condition (assuming the motor is workable without replacing serious hardware)?
the formula is real simple for this scooter. What would you pay to have it as a display?
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Sorry to pile on - I can understand you wanting to pick up a possible project, get your hands dirty, get it on the road and feel a sense of pride in doing so. But this one is an absolute money pit. And your time, while free to you and used as as you see fit, would be spent so much better on an honest project. But not to worry as most older Vespas are going to need work with the exception of the scoot from Mr. Gick. And eventually that will to, but most likely just everyday maintenance. If you are dead set on this one, I would suggest spend no more on the purchase that you would on a lottery ticket. The odds are about the same that you will come out on the winning side.
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That scooter is about 1 hour north from me. Of course the sidecars will always intrigue me, and i do have the space to store one. In reality i don't think i would be a good fit for one. Well, unless i fabbed up some sort of lumber rack on the hack so that i could haul an armload of 2x4's....possibly a few sheets of plywood too. I suppose at that point i should install a trailer hitch so that a PAV trailer could be tugged around.
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whodatschrome wrote:
That scooter is about 1 hour north from me. Of course the sidecars will always intrigue me, and i do have the space to store one. In reality i don't think i would be a good fit for one. Well, unless i fabbed up some sort of lumber rack on the hack so that i could haul an armload of 2x4's....possibly a few sheets of plywood too. I suppose at that point i should install a trailer hitch so that a PAV trailer could be tugged around.
And of course you'd have to take a page from the Orange Unicorn and fab up some articulation in the sidecar mount. Razz emoticon
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Christopher_55934 wrote:
Who has the video of the rusty scooter being pulled out of a field, cleaned up, filled with body filler and being painted?

This one is being shown off on YouTube, my favorite parts are brake pads being painted, parts being beat out of engine with hammer and reusing original bearings. Notice tools to measure anything never showed up on bench.

I've seen that one before. You can see when he first strips the paint that there are already lots of welding repairs and he adds even more. The welding he does isn't bad, but it's basically a Vespa shape underneath a cocoon of filler. You can imagine what would happen to that bike once it spent some time in the elements. It happens a lot with old cars too.

If I were looking for something old, shiny paint would make me walk away immediately.
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orwell84 wrote:
If I were looking for something old, shiny paint would make me walk away immediately.
My wife had to explain this to me. She said "People can see themselves on something nice and shiny. That's all they're interested in, and scooters are pretty cheap in comparison to a car".
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motocafe wrote:
...
Most of you are saying stay away, and I respect that. But I'm here because I happened upon a very quirky older gentleman with some old scoots in his warehouse, and I may have an opportunity to pick up this side hack (and possibly a couple other scoots).
It's a work-in-progress relationship, and one that must be taken very slowly and gently. I know that may seem cryptic but remember, this gentleman is quite quirky.
...
Oh good, as a bona fide 'very quirky older gentleman' myself, this is a subject that I am an expert on. Just ask anybody who ever bought or I gave a scooter to... This is NOT just about the money, this is about YOU! Not cryptic at all for most of us I think.

So how about this: Do you think you have or can get pics of his other scoots? I'm betting if he was a half ass collector that they were not ALL SEA bikes and we could help you select pick of the litter and suggest a hi enuff respectable offer price to start happy negotiations so your guy knows you are serious and not just some random newb attracted to a shiny SEA sidecar.

And again I most strongly recommend : start w/ a decent scooter and learn it to love it, then do your research and graduate to a sidecar if that's still your goal!

Don't despair, good luck on your quest!

PS The possibility occurs to me that his reluctance to deal with you on this particular scoot might just be his conscience kicking in...? Shhh emoticon
Time to get more interested in one of his OTHER scoots anyway and see what happens?
@exmayor avatar
UTC

Hooked
64 V90 survivor '65 Allstate survivor. '75 V90 SOLD. '77 P200 SOLD
Joined: UTC
Posts: 461
Location: Madison WI
 
Hooked
@exmayor avatar
64 V90 survivor '65 Allstate survivor. '75 V90 SOLD. '77 P200 SOLD
Joined: UTC
Posts: 461
Location: Madison WI
UTC quote
V oodoo wrote:
Oh good, as a bona fide 'very quirky older gentleman' myself, this is a subject that I am an expert on. Just ask anybody who ever bought or I gave a scooter to... This is NOT just about the money, this is about YOU! Not cryptic at all for most of us I think.

So how about this: Do you think you have or can get pics of his other scoots? I'm betting if he was a half ass collector that they were not ALL SEA bikes and we could help you select pick of the litter and suggest a hi enuff respectable offer price to start happy negotiations so your guy knows you are serious and not just some random newb attracted to a shiny SEA sidecar.

And again I most strongly recommend : start w/ a decent scooter and
learn it to love it, then do your research and graduate to a sidecar if that's still your goal!

Don't despair, good luck on your quest!

PS The possibility occurs to me that his reluctance to deal with you on this particular scoot might just be his conscience kicking in...? Shhh emoticon
Time to get more interested in one of his OTHER scoots anyway and see what happens?
I can vouch for what V oodoo said. He quite reluctantly sold me my first NSM. shifty a 1964 smallframe in 2018.
It was a really solid one that needed some polishing and mechanical freshening.
With 5he help of MV I slowly learned to work my way thru all the little issues that are part of the caretaking process.
She had gone thru a number of mechanical changes but still wears her original paint.
When you settle on a solid one with the groups combined you will slowly sink down the rabbit hole of vintage vespas.
Over the time since 2018 I have had 4 different ones and have settled on keeping the smallframe and an original paint 1965 Allstate.
Please don't be impulsive. Ask lots of questions and enjoy the process.
The day she arrived
The day she arrived
The pair as they are now after lots of wax on wax off.
Don't shy away from an original paint one.
The pair as they are now after lots of wax on wax off. Don't shy away from an original paint one.
@roland87 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1244
Location: Ukraine. Kyiv.
 
Molto Verboso
@roland87 avatar
'13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1244
Location: Ukraine. Kyiv.
UTC quote
exmayor wrote:
Please don't be impulsive. Ask lots of questions and enjoy the process.
Great words!
UTC

Addicted
Joined: UTC
Posts: 937
Location: Planet Earth
 
Addicted
Joined: UTC
Posts: 937
Location: Planet Earth
UTC quote
Be good for doing an Indiana Jones tribute film where the sidecar departs company with passenger and the scoot continues for a bit before snapping in half at the slightest pot hole. There is no polite way of saying it but its a crock of shite.
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