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Hi all. This is my first post.
I am working on my first Vespa which is a 2004 GT 200. Bodywork is great but mechanically I am finding a few horrors! I'm happy to spanner away myself though, as it's one of the reasons I bought it.
My question to the forum.. I started to change my back wheel, so I removed the one bolt holding the wheel brace in place (yes, I know it should be two), the two bolts holding the exhaust, the split pin and castle nut, then nut. Now it starts..
I removed the wheel next, then found the small spacer behind it(!) Then the large spacer. Both of these were putting up a real battle to come of the final drive. With a lot of lube and gentle coaxing with wooden offcuts I managed to pry off the small spacer. The large cone is waiting for my puller to arrive as I can't get it past the last inch. I forgot to mention that there is a good bit of play when holding the tyre and rocking the wheel. A small amount of play when just rocking the final drive.

So... It's looking like my hub may be excessively worn, but I am concerned about the final drive shaft and not having a free fit for the spacers. In preparation for the worst I am trying to establish if any other models may have the same shaft in case I need to look for a replacement from the breakers.
I would be interested in any other experience in this area. Further note, the bearing in the wheel brace is fine but I'm replacing it anyway.

The bike has done 25k km.
Image of drive
Image of drive
⚠️ Last edited by Sglaw on UTC; edited 1 time
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Welcome.
Please tell the experts what the odometer reads and Pics.
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Sglaw wrote:
(...)
So... It's looking like my hub may be excessively worn, but I am concerned about the final drive shaft and not having a free fit for the spacers. In preparation for the worst I am trying to establish if any other models may have the same shaft in case I need to look for a replacement from the breakers.
I would be interested in any other experience in this area. Further note, the bearing in the wheel brace is fine but I'm replacing it anyway.

The bike has done 25k km.
I would not be that pessimistic. 25k km is not a big deal. There should not be much wear in that hub, at least when it got normal lubrication.
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PeterCC wrote:
I would not be that pessimistic. 25k km is not a big deal. There should not be much wear in that hub, at least when it got normal lubrication.
Thank you. I have now received my puller and got the cone spacer off. This seems to be in good condition after cleaning. Having to get Christmas out if the way to give the shaft and hub a good examination.
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It goes cone spacer, swingarm bearing, round spacer. You have the round spacer next to the cone. if that's the order they were in on the bike, it's wrong, and your swingarm bearing is likely compromised.
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doesn't look all that bad to me. I'd clean it all up with some scotch-brite.

If you had to use a puller on the swing arm, I'd recommend replacing the bearing. and to motovista's point if that was the sequence of fasteners then that bearing is definitely compromised.

a little waterproof grease when everything goes back together will help in future disassembly.
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greasy125 wrote:
doesn't look all that bad to me. I'd clean it all up with some scotch-brite.

If you had to use a puller on the swing arm, I'd recommend replacing the bearing. and to motovista's point if that was the sequence of fasteners then that bearing is definitely compromised.

a little waterproof grease when everything goes back together will help in future disassembly.
Thanks for the response. Just to clarify, the swing arm came off without problems, although I will be changing the bearing as a matter of course. The small and cone spacer which were behind the wheel were both pretty stuck but are now both off after I got hold of a puller. Haven't had a chance to inspect the final drive shaft yet, which I hope isn't damaged. There is a fair bit of play in the hub which worries me a little, but I need to clean and inspect everything and take it from there. Like I say, my big concern is the condition of the final drive shaft.
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Update. A picture of the drive shaft now I have removed the cone. Should it have the groove and should the hub sit so far forward?[/u]
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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I seem to remember that the swing arm does the important job of keeping that all aligned. I did a GTS rebuild a few years back and thought I had the same problem but if you put the swing arm back on it was located properly.
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Were both spacers installed behind the swing arm??
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SaFiS wrote:
Were both spacers installed behind the swing arm??
Yes they were. I found them exactly like in the earlier picture. I thought the spacer was missing as I had seen the parts list, but it was in the wrong place.
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That explains the wear on the axle…
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SaFiS wrote:
That explains the wear on the axle…
yeah. that's uhh... concerning?

I'd be 50/50 on running that. if it were mine I'd probably roll some dice in that I could keep an eye on it. on a customer's bike, no way. that would 100% get replaced.
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Had both the spacers been behind the swinging arm surely that would have compromised the way the swinging arm fitted to its final place not making it meet up and a misalign on the rear shock absorber πŸ€”.

As for the wheel play, with the scooter on the main stand moving the wheel back and forth should be around 3mm this is take up and normal, but no waggle, up and down side to side.

As for the replace of the swinging arm bearing, as mentioned 25k is nothing to write home about, Its a sealed bearing when manually rotating it if it does not feel gritty to the touch I would leave well alone, remember these are factory pressed and without the correct tooling are a pig to do, with the correct tooling you have to be careful working with hardened steel and alloy, but will say should this scooter have been ridden with a misaligned swinging arm check this area well.

As mentioned on re assembly use grease as in L2 general assembly lithium white grease and re torque up all nuts and bolts to correct settings.

check this link out for all that or view the manual in Wiki at page topπŸ˜‰πŸ‘

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BUGGSY wrote:
Had both the spacers been behind the swinging arm surely that would have compromised the way the swinging arm fitted to its final place not making it meet up and a misalign on the rear shock absorber πŸ€”.

As for the wheel play, with the scooter on the main stand moving the wheel back and forth should be around 3mm this is take up and normal, but no waggle, up and down side to side.

As for the replace of the swinging arm bearing, as mentioned 25k is nothing to write home about, Its a sealed bearing when manually rotating it if it does not feel gritty to the touch I would leave well alone, remember these are factory pressed and without the correct tooling are a pig to do, with the correct tooling you have to be careful working with hardened steel and alloy, but will say should this scooter have been ridden with a misaligned swinging arm check this area well.

As mentioned on re assembly use grease as in L2 general assembly lithium white grease and re torque up all nuts and bolts to correct settings.

check this link out for all that or view the manual in Wiki at page topπŸ˜‰πŸ‘

Thanks for all the info. So to recap what I have:
The back wheel assy was incorrectly put together. All the manuals, videos and parts list show that the smaller spacer was in the wrong place.

The swing arm was fitted with just one bolt (yes this is what I am working with and the reason I am being extra fussy on this service)

The swinging arm bearing is now out and I have a replacement to press in. The shock spigot on the arm looks to be in good condition with no wear or notches so that can stay.

I was concerned that I had to use a puller to get the spacers off of the axle as that indicates there could be a worn section of the axle forming an edge. It doesn't appear to be so but today I am going to take the hub off and clean it and take a good look at that, and how the hub fits. To me it seems excessive rocking when I hold the wheel and gently risk it by pulling and pushing laterally, but I need to see the splines on both the axle and hub.
First I have to remove one of the buggered up Allen bolts holding the rear brake caliper on!

My original question is, if I need a new primary drive shaft (wheel drive shaft), are any other models the same dimensions as the 2004 GT 200, does anyone know? In case I have trouble sourcing a 200 one. I found a chart on Modern Vespa that says the 125 has the same amount of teeth but I've never seen that part to be sure it's the same. I guess both have the Leader engine.

I'm going the extra mile on this one as it's my little hobby project but it should be clear from what I have found so far that it wouldn't be safe to ride until I have checked every nut and bolt!
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Yes you are right both are leader engines, have you checked the shaft with a Vernier for trueness also if your thinking of sourcing parts from a breaker's be careful that you're not replacing bad parts with the same.
The lateral play forward and back should be 3mm this is take up and the normπŸ˜‰πŸ‘.
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BUGGSY wrote:
Yes you are right both are leader engines, have you checked the shaft with a Vernier for trueness also if your thinking of sourcing parts from a breaker's be careful that you're not replacing bad parts with the same.
The lateral play forward and back should be 3mm this is take up and the normπŸ˜‰πŸ‘.
This afternoon I managed to drill out the brake caliper bolt, so I could remove the hub with disc and take a good look. So I think what has happened is that at some point, something has rubbed on the axle and caused a slight groove and lip. I presume that at some point somebody has taken the wheel off and not been able to get the wheel brace back on as the bearing wouldn't go over the slight ridge. So they must have whacked the spacer on.
There is a slight groove in the axle but I've dressed the axle a minimal amount with some 1200 grit and can now get the cone spacer on reasonably freely and the bearing with a bit of pressure.
Play in and out of the gearbox is around 1-2 mm and side to side is negligible, so I think I'm going to check out the hub next. Hoping the drive shaft will be ok?
Pic attached.
GT 200 L 2004 final drive shaft
GT 200 L 2004 final drive shaft
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That all looks good mate πŸ˜‰πŸ‘.

P.s on previous post, I went in depth a bit, this is because I take into account this is a forum and don't know a persons skill level, I was not doubting your knowledge πŸ‘[quote="Sglaw"]
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BUGGSY wrote:
That all looks good mate πŸ˜‰πŸ‘.

P.s on previous post, I went in depth a bit, this is because I take into account this is a forum and don't know a persons skill level, I was not doubting your knowledge πŸ‘{
No worries, I'm appreciative of any suggestions and advice. It's been a long time since I was last on the spanners!
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see the wear pattern there at the end of the shaft I circled in green? that's where the bearing rides. there is a tolerance fit between the OD of the shaft and ID of the bearing, it's not a critical fit, but it needs to be snug and not round-- which I'm fairly certain that is neither.

in the previous pic, it looked like just a line had been scored in the shaft from the incorrect assembly. after seeing this pic, I would 100% recommend replacement.

as confirmation you could take the new bearing and check the fit to the axle. I'd bet dollars to donuts it's sloppy as all get out.
bad wear pattern
bad wear pattern
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I thought it was only a score line, now I've pulled the Image in and looked against the red back ground, good comment πŸ‘ needs checking.[quote="greasy125"]
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Seeing what Greasy has spotted I would try that new bearing to see what fit you have not only on that end but along the shaft, at least it will give you an Indication of how true it is.

If that end were the bearing sits is out and not a good fit and your planning a lot of millage in the future on it, Greasy right in what he says by swopping it out, as the roads here will only make it worse over time.
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greasy125 wrote:
see the wear pattern there at the end of the shaft I circled in green? that's where the bearing rides. there is a tolerance fit between the OD of the shaft and ID of the bearing, it's not a critical fit, but it needs to be snug and not round-- which I'm fairly certain that is neither.

in the previous pic, it looked like just a line had been scored in the shaft from the incorrect assembly. after seeing this pic, I would 100% recommend replacement.

as confirmation you could take the new bearing and check the fit to the axle. I'd bet dollars to donuts it's sloppy as all get out.
Worrying! I tried it with the bearing that came off but I'll try it with the new bearing. I've got the new bearing in the freezer at the moment to go back in the wheel brace. I'll get it back up to normal temp and give it a try.
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If its not passable I know a somebody who has one and I'll PM you his number.
Sglaw wrote:
Worrying! I tried it with the bearing that came off but I'll try it with the new bearing. I've got the new bearing in the freezer at the moment to go back in the wheel brace. I'll get it back up to normal temp and give it a try.
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Sglaw wrote:
Worrying! I tried it with the bearing that came off but I'll try it with the new bearing. I've got the new bearing in the freezer at the moment to go back in the wheel brace. I'll get it back up to normal temp and give it a try.
yeah man, test fit it with the new bearing. if it's bobo replace the shaft, a new bearing wouldn't last long on there at all and you risk big ugly breakage if that thing comes apart, especially while moving. at speed.

because the swing arm was missing a bolt and the other was likely half ass in there, give those bolt holes a good look and make sure that they're passable and will work and thread up new fasteners. otherwise make that repair before trying to install the bits. better to find out now rather than when you're just trying to get it all together.
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greasy125 wrote:
yeah man, test fit it with the new bearing. if it's bobo replace the shaft, a new bearing wouldn't last long on there at all and you risk big ugly breakage if that thing comes apart, especially while moving. at speed.

because the swing arm was missing a bolt and the other was likely half ass in there, give those bolt holes a good look and make sure that they're passable and will work and thread up new fasteners. otherwise make that repair before trying to install the bits. better to find out now rather than when you're just trying to get it all together.
^^^^ This. The exhaust on Mrs jimc's LX is just mis-shaped enough that after multiple removals the 8mm bolt-holes had enlarged to the point of not holding the bolts properly at all. In the end I had to drill and tap out to 10mm and do LOTS of filing on the mounting holes on the exhaust to get it properly snug. If those 8mm bolts let go you could be in for all sorts of hurt.
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jimc wrote:
^^^^ This. The exhaust on Mrs jimc's LX is just mis-shaped enough that after multiple removals the 8mm bolt-holes had enlarged to the point of not holding the bolts properly at all. In the end I had to drill and tap out to 10mm and do LOTS of filing on the mounting holes on the exhaust to get it properly snug. If those 8mm bolts let go you could be in for all sorts of hurt.
Fortunately the 8mm threads are ok. When I saw one was missing I tried it straight away dreading that it had been stripped and why they hadn't put a bolt in. Think they either couldn't be arsed or they didn't do it up and it fell out....πŸ™„
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greasy125 wrote:
yeah man, test fit it with the new bearing. if it's bobo replace the shaft, a new bearing wouldn't last long on there at all and you risk big ugly breakage if that thing comes apart, especially while moving. at speed.

because the swing arm was missing a bolt and the other was likely half ass in there, give those bolt holes a good look and make sure that they're passable and will work and thread up new fasteners. otherwise make that repair before trying to install the bits. better to find out now rather than when you're just trying to get it all together.
Hmm. Starting to think a new shaft might be the safest and most sensible option!
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greasy125 wrote:
see the wear pattern there at the end of the shaft I circled in green? that's where the bearing rides. there is a tolerance fit between the OD of the shaft and ID of the bearing, it's not a critical fit, but it needs to be snug and not round-- which I'm fairly certain that is neither.

in the previous pic, it looked like just a line had been scored in the shaft from the incorrect assembly. after seeing this pic, I would 100% recommend replacement.

as confirmation you could take the new bearing and check the fit to the axle. I'd bet dollars to donuts it's sloppy as all get out.
I'm not sure about that. I think that's where the spacer would fit, not the bearing.

Put the wheel hub back on, then put on the cone spacer, the bearing without the swingarm attached, and the other spacer. That will tell you where everything is supposed to be.
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Motovista wrote:
I'm not sure about that. I think that's where the spacer would fit, not the bearing.

Put the wheel hub back on, then put on the cone spacer, the bearing without the swingarm attached, and the other spacer. That will tell you where everything is supposed to be.
Good thinking that man!
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That made me think πŸ€” sooo went in the workshop and had a look at a 09 GTS I have in repair, motovista's right the small spacer sits on and just proud of the shaft prior to the end thread for the wheel nut to nip up to, but surely in my previous post with the small spacer found behind the swinging arm and as Greasy said this would have put the bearing in that place. so as the fitment of the arm then being compromised and on at an angle albeit slight would have caused wear in that area πŸ˜‰πŸ‘
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If you look at Sglaws original image of how he found it, the swinging arm bearing would be located in that position due to mis re-assembly by previous owner πŸ˜‰πŸ‘
Motovista wrote:
I'm not sure about that. I think that's where the spacer would fit, not the bearing.

Put the wheel hub back on, then put on the cone spacer, the bearing without the swingarm attached, and the other spacer. That will tell you where everything is supposed to be.
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UTC quote
BUGGSY wrote:
If you look at Sglaws original image of how he found it, the swinging arm bearing would be located in that position due to mis re-assembly by previous owner πŸ˜‰πŸ‘
Correct. What I was trying to say, apparently obtusely, is that if the spacer fits on the part of the rear axle that has the wear, and the bearing fits on the part that's fine, the axle is likely serviceable and does not need to be replaced.
OP
@sglaw avatar
UTC

Member
Vespa GT 200 L 2004
Joined: UTC
Posts: 29
Location: South UK
 
Member
@sglaw avatar
Vespa GT 200 L 2004
Joined: UTC
Posts: 29
Location: South UK
UTC quote
Thanks for all the input and advice. I removed the shaft and measured and inspected. To cut a long story short, it was 50/50, so I thought back to my engineering days and what my old boss would have done. So I have ordered a new shaft and replaced the bearing in the wheel brace.

My next issue is finding a replacement starter crown/torque limiter. If anyone has one lying around....
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