OP
@berto avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2018 Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2092
Location: Toronto
 
Ossessionato
@berto avatar
2018 Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2092
Location: Toronto
UTC quote
I decided to open up the engine on my 2006 LX150 (13,500 miles). There was nothing obviously wrong with it to require this. There were some minor issues (oil in airbox, oil on cylinder, harder starts). But if I'm honest, really I just wanted to do this as a winter project and to show this bike some attention. "There are many like it, but this one is mine."

I asked about splitting the cases in another thread, and Greasy wisely talked me out of it. So I'm just looking at the top end.

I found:
1) intake valve tight (0.1mm gauge fit if pushed, but was very snug)
2) one of the cylinder studs was loose (unscrewed by hand - will Loctite and reinstall)
3) gouge in the upper cylinder surface (doesn't go all the way to cylinder, but deep enough to catch a nail. This was there before. I'm not sure what to think of this?)

And I verified:
1) insides are generally very clean
2) no metal sparkle or sludge in oil sump
3) valves not leaking (held carb cleaner for 30 min without drip)
4) cylinder has good cross-hatching and no gouges

I posted some photos below. Anything look obviously wrong? Is this level of carbon buildup normal for an engine of this vintage?

In particular, what should I make of that cylinder gouge? Presumably I've been running with that for years, so maybe a non-issue. But then again, it might make a good excuse to buy a big bore kit.
top end removed - carbon and sludge inside
top end removed - carbon and sludge inside
valves - as original
valves - as original
valves - cleaned up
valves - cleaned up
piston - cleaned up
piston - cleaned up
oil sump - not much dirt or sludge
oil sump - not much dirt or sludge
cylinder
cylinder
cylinder mating surface - highlighted gouge
cylinder mating surface - highlighted gouge
cylinder gouge detail #1
cylinder gouge detail #1
cylinder gouge detail #2
cylinder gouge detail #2
@motovista avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9463
Location: Main Street, Watts
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@motovista avatar
GT 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9463
Location: Main Street, Watts
UTC quote
If I'm looking at the same part, I'm not sure I see the gouge in the photos before the cylinder was cleaned up. If it was there, then it passed QC and ran for 13500 miles before you decided to take it apart, and you can use it again.
@slowpoke avatar
UTC

Hooked
1952 allstate (early), 1958 allstate, 2009 S150, 2001 ET2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 226
Location: CT
 
Hooked
@slowpoke avatar
1952 allstate (early), 1958 allstate, 2009 S150, 2001 ET2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 226
Location: CT
UTC quote
You want a big bore kit I got a used you could buy. The gouge is not anything the gasket won't take care of. I would not worry about it. The 190 kit is a nice improvement in power if your looking to go that way.
OP
@berto avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2018 Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2092
Location: Toronto
 
Ossessionato
@berto avatar
2018 Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2092
Location: Toronto
UTC quote
Motovista wrote:
If I'm looking at the same part, I'm not sure I see the gouge in the photos before the cylinder was cleaned up. If it was there, then it passed QC and ran for 13500 miles before you decided to take it apart, and you can use it again.
It's pretty dirty, so easy to miss, but the cylinder "before" picture still has the head gasket in place and covering the gouge. Thanks for advice on part being ok!
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7993
Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7993
Location: Tega Cay, SC
UTC quote
Slowpoke, if Berto does not want the big bore kit, I may be interested.
Berto, it all looks good, maybe just check the end gap on the rings?
@znomit avatar
UTC

Hobbitus Moderatorus
S50, R1100s, way too many pushbikes
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Posts: 11426
Location: Hermit Kingdom
 
Hobbitus Moderatorus
@znomit avatar
S50, R1100s, way too many pushbikes
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Posts: 11426
Location: Hermit Kingdom
UTC quote
How are the cams looking?
OP
@berto avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2018 Liberty 150
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Location: Toronto
 
Ossessionato
@berto avatar
2018 Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2092
Location: Toronto
UTC quote
znomit wrote:
How are the cams looking?
I think they look alright. Some wear marks, but no scratches, gouges, burn colouration, etc.

Can someone please verify that little spring washer goes between the two rocker arms (as opposed to on the end)? In my 4th picture below. It fell out before I noticed where it came from. Facepalm emoticon

I checked the shop manual and parts diagram, but they don't seem to match up exactly with the cam setup here. At least the washer isn't obvious to me
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
is spring washer in the right place? (*between* the rocker arms)
is spring washer in the right place? (*between* the rocker arms)
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
@berto avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2018 Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2092
Location: Toronto
 
Ossessionato
@berto avatar
2018 Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2092
Location: Toronto
UTC quote
Ugh. The good news is that I found a parts diagram for the 2V version of the leader engine. The bad news is that it doesn't show the spring washer location either!

Is someone able to please confirm the spring washer goes between the two rocker arms, as shown in my photo above?
@az_slynch avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '74 VBC1, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1909
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
@az_slynch avatar
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '74 VBC1, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
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Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
Let me check when I get home, but I'm pretty sure it goes between the rocker arms.
@jimc avatar
UTC

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Posts: 45850
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 45850
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
UTC quote
berto wrote:
Ugh. The good news is that I found a parts diagram for the 2V version of the leader engine. The bad news is that it doesn't show the spring washer location either!

Is someone able to please confirm the spring washer goes between the two rocker arms, as shown in my photo above?
Berto, you do know we have our own manuals site? https://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/Vespa/LX150/

I have to agree that that washer isn't shown at all.
@az_slynch avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '74 VBC1, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1909
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
@az_slynch avatar
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '74 VBC1, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1909
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
Pic from the camshaft which I kept bagged as an assembly when I pulled it out of the project head I bought.

Also, pic from eBay of a used head, you can barely see the washer between the rocker arms.
From the project head.
From the project head.
From eBay listing I found.
From eBay listing I found.
OP
@berto avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2018 Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2092
Location: Toronto
 
Ossessionato
@berto avatar
2018 Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2092
Location: Toronto
UTC quote
az_slynch wrote:
Pic from the camshaft which I kept bagged as an assembly when I pulled it out of the project head I bought.

Also, pic from eBay of a used head, you can barely see the washer between the rocker arms.
This is fantastic! Thanks for taking the time! Clap emoticon
⚠️ Last edited by berto on UTC; edited 1 time
OP
@berto avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2018 Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2092
Location: Toronto
 
Ossessionato
@berto avatar
2018 Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2092
Location: Toronto
UTC quote
jimc wrote:
Berto, you do know we have our own manuals site? https://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/Vespa/LX150/

I have to agree that that washer isn't shown at all.
Yes, I should have mentioned I checked there too! It mentions the washer and gives a diagram that kind of shows it, but still left a little ambiguity.
OP
@berto avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2018 Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2092
Location: Toronto
 
Ossessionato
@berto avatar
2018 Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2092
Location: Toronto
UTC quote
I'm taking my time here, since it is a "fun" hobby project!

I ran the cylinder and (disassembled) head through an ultrasonic cleaner, which removed 10+ years of thick grime - very satisfying!

I inspected and lapped the valves, and installed new valve stem seals.

Inspected the decompression mechanism - all good.

Replaced a couple of seized engine dowels, and re-torqued the engine stud that had come loose. Fresh gaskets all around. Set the timing and buttoned it up!

I also put in a new transmission belt while in here.

This thread was interesting for a budget approach to replacing that seal plate. But I'm going to stick with greasy's advice and leave well enough alone. Razz emoticon

I'm going to replace the steering bearings while the engine is out (they started squeaking last season). This way I can more easily lift it onto a table, given I do not have a proper lift Crying or Very sad emoticon
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@juan_orhea avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
S150 '09, Beo 500ie '08
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1538
Location: Bermuda
 
Molto Verboso
@juan_orhea avatar
S150 '09, Beo 500ie '08
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1538
Location: Bermuda
UTC quote
I did the steering bearings on my 500ie a little over a year ago. Good project as long as you have the right tools - threaded rod, high quality nuts, bearing presser plates of the correct sizes, freeze spray.

https://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?333976-Beo-500-ie-Steering-Head-Bearings/page2
@greasy125 avatar
UTC

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 15119
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 15119
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
UTC quote
if doing just the bearings it's not that bad. but races and bearings is a bit of an undertaking.

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