Modern Vespa

Have been looking for cheap transportation options recently and so I settled on scooters or a sub 700 cc motorcycle. I'm really leaning towards scooters.

Let me tell you what I've found so far before I get to the vespa details.

There aren't too many scooter dealerships in my area, I called one a city over from me and they want $4400+ out the door price for a 2023 Genuine Buddy 170i and a 2023 Genuine Hooligan 170i.

The dealership close to me has these same two models on sale but the out the door price will be $3441 for the Buddy and around $3900 for the Hooligan. The buddy is way too small for me. It's tiny.

The same dealership (closer one) also has a 2009 Vespa GTS250 IE with just under 4000 miles for an out the door price of close to $3700.

I could either go with the weak and small buddy or bigger wheelbase/frame but just as weak Hooligan. Or I could spend somewhere in between the amount they're asking for those two and get double the horsepower and a much higher resale value with the Vespa.


It fired right up in 30 something degree weather after sitting outside all day. I didn't ride it. Had snappy throttle response. Idled smoothly.

Has the usual wear and tear. A few minor scratches in the paint and tiny scuffs. Nothing that a buffer can't fix. It comes with a large case on the rear. Overall it looks well maintained.

So what do you guys think? Is $3700 too much?

iirc there's been some threads here that mentioned the gts250 is old enough that it's hard to get spare parts? or was that the gt200 ... somebody chime in and confirm please

Any and all useful information about this vespa will be appreciated. I read something about a fuel pump recall for this year.

I asked for service records or ownership history for this specific scooter and they said there weren't any beyond what would be on the title. Not sure if this is normal. Mileage seems low for the age. 3900 roughly.

I have the 250ie. Plenty of vendors on eBay for parts. Sometimes from Europe tho. Gotta wait for shipping. I haven't had to repair anything serious. Runs perfect with 8K on it now.

$3700 is a little steep. Wave a cash deal at the dealer, get it for far less out the door. I would not pay that. Just my 2cents. Where's it at? Does that dealer have a website ?

Yes I figured 3700 is a bit steep. The original "out the door" price was $3900 ish. I asked him straight up "would I be able to talk the price down a little if I paid cash?" (I'm not good at negotiating with dealerships, I have little experience) and he said $3700 was the lowest he'd go. I can show up with $3500 cash and see if that changes his tune.

How would you go about negotiating?

Sorry they do have a website but I don't want to give all the details and have it bought out from under me. Not saying you would do that but I've seen it happen. I live in the southeastern United States.

I'm over in the UK spares okay to obtain here and I also use suppliers who ship worldwide in Germany and Cyprus and shipping is fair.
The price seems excessive don't know if that's because of the millage, a friend bought one late last year, 2008 plate with 34k private sale good condition 1200 pounds Stirling is that around $1521 😉👍

I'd hazard $2000 is more like a fair price to both buyer and seller.

Can you work on this yourself? When's the last time the coolant and brake fluid was changed? The belt is 15 years old, as are the tires. In Colorado it's dry. Belt age doesn't bother me too much. As long as the tires hold their pressure and I don't see cracks, I don't touch them. If you need to pay a shop a bunch of cash to catch up on maintenance, take that into account. Sean just bought a 2009 with 12k miles for $1,800 in Denver. Dead of winter, dead spot of the riding season. Pretty clean scooter with some scratches. It came with a large windshield, folding rack and Givi case.

I have a little knowledge of the games dealerships play. They say they won't go lower than a certain price then you show up with a cash offer, they act offended or angry but "reluctantly " accept your offer.

The consensus seems to be that this is a $2000 scooter. Should I show up with $2800 cash and offer to take it off their hands for $2000 and work my way up to the $2800 limit if necessary, and walk away if they don't accept $2800 or less? Maybe leave my phone number in case they change their minds?

Yes now that you mention it, it should still have original tires and belts. The tires looked great though. I'd have to look closer, I didn't have much time to look. I need to ask more questions. I probably seemed too enthusiastic to buy. I asked some questions but I need to be more "poker face" and seem less interested.

Unfortunately a lot of my tools are in storage in a different state so I won't be able to do a lot of work without purchasing some more tools or using tools at work.

A fairly clean 250 w/ 4,000 miles. $2,800 wouldn't be the worse deal in town. Plan on spending some cash for maintenance. Test the ph level of the coolant. Brake fluid could be original. If you are diligent and patient in your search, I guarantee a better deal will come along. Walk into the dealer and tell them your Credit Union will only lend $2,400 on the bike. Less is always better when you're buying.

Okay so the plan is show up at some point in the next week or two with $2800 or $2900 cash. I will absolutely not pay more than $2900. The only reason I'd go that high is because of the relatively low mileage.

I show up with the money, make up a sob story about how the bank wouldn't loan any more than $2400 for this specific purchase. "Those mean bankers blah blah blah"

The guy either takes the offer that's $1300 lower than his original "lowest out the door price " or he rejects it. If he rejects it then I say "let me talk to my wife and see what I can do"

I then go to the car, drive 2 blocks away and sit on the phone with my wife, not actually talking about "what we can do to get more money"

I come back after 10 or 15 minutes of talking to the wife about something unrelated.

I say we were able to come up with a little extra but we are really tight on money, woe is us and whatnot. Don't be too specific about how much extra.

I make an offer for $2650. If he rejects again, I give some spiel along the lines of "this is all of our extra money boo hoo sob sob" and make an offer for $2800-$2900.

If he rejects final offer I walk away from getting shafted it sounds like. Let someone else overpay.

Thoughts?

Oh and just to clarify for everyone, we are talking $2800 or $2900 max out the door price, right?
They love to tack on their fees and other BS. Registration, fees, etc.

I should hope so!

The seller's original price is really meaningless. A bike is worth what it's worth. That's where the buyer stands with an open wallet, and the seller is sick of looking at it. I prefer buying from a private party myself.

I shouldn't be surprised about the dealership looking to screw someone with the high price but after looking at a few used vespa scooters on Craigslist in my area they are asking kind of ridiculous prices. Not $3700 ridiculous but $2900+ for a Vespa 150 to give an idea.

Are ridiculous scooter prices a regional thing? It has been in the 30s here recently. It's not like Montana but there's definitely a winter here and this is not "riding season ".

2009 was indeed the year for the faulty fuel pumps. I put about 40K miles on a 2007 GTS, with no real issues. Great scooter. Don't get your heart set on just this one. More will come along if this deal doesn't go through. That said, any authorized Vespa dealer can input the VIN to determine if the fuel pump recall was performed on this particular scooter.

Has inflation effected this market a lot too?

My brother bought a Suzuki Vstrom 650 in late 2019 or very early 2020. He has put a lot of miles on that bike, but he can still possibly sell it for not too much less than he originally bought it for.

Starting in about mid/late 2020 prices for new and used vehicles really started climbing.

I understand this is comparing apples to oranges, not all bikes and scooters are created equal. I'm just seeing ridiculous prices for used vehicles in general.

I am by no means defending ridiculous dealership prices. Dealerships disgust me but there's not a huge used scooter market in my area.

I sold a 2006 GTS 250ie in red for $3500 CAD, about $2600 USD, and I had a hard time getting people to come look at it.

If you offered me $3700 USD I would have delivered mine to you and thought you were crazy for paying me so much for it.

That being said, prices varies a lot by where you're located. Maybe they're more expensive where you are... but, I'm not where you are so that seems way too high to me. Is it even red?!

Haha no, it's not even red!

It's a silver/gray color.

Honestly I'm starting to worry a little that the dealer is not charging a terrible price considering the region I live in.

Here are a few craigslist ads for Vespas in the southeastern United States.

A 2007 Vespa 250 with 5900 miles for $4500?!
https://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/mcd/d/boca-raton-vespa-owner-low-miles/7706856007.html

A 2007 Vespa LX 150 with 1100 miles and the guy is asking $3500?!
https://louisville.craigslist.org/bar/d/nabb-2007-vespa-lx-150-yellow-1100-miles/7700914149.html

A 2016 Vespa 150 Sprint that has been dropped and has 6000 miles for $2900?!
https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/mcy/d/marietta-vespa-sprint-150-6k-miles-2016/7701137186.html

A 2015 Vespa Sprint 50cc with 400 miles for $3650?!
https://jacksonville.craigslist.org/snw/d/doctors-inlet-2015-vespa-sprint-like/7705972097.html

I realize these are just asking prices but I believe this unfortunatey says something about scooter prices in this region...

You asked. Here's my thoughts as a person who has sold tens of thousands of vehicles. 1) You're way overthinking this. Ask yourself what you're willing to pay, out the door, and go in and explain to (hopefully the owner but if not the person in charge) that you're willing to buy the bike right now for this much. If they refuse walk away and look for another bike. Everything else (the non existent banker, your wife) is irrelevant.
2) Remember when you asked if he could lower the price? Of course he said no. What he should have said is "How low would I have to go to make you the happy new owner right now?" Then, whatever you said, he pretends to consult with someone and comes back with a counter offer. That's why, if your time is important, you impress on him when you return that you're not doing that dance. You have a firm and final offer and if he says anything but yes, you're walking. Because you are. You're not playing games.
I can't tell you how many times I've been called back with an acceptance after I walked and bought another vehicle. Sometimes there was regret but there's a bonus too. You can find a no BS dealer that understands you. Of course, disregard this if you love negotiating with dealers.
My other thought is this: two grand won't even buy a decent e-bike. In 2024 I hate to say it, two grand is less than chump change. If anyone can show me a clean, low mileage large frame injected Vespa for two grand let me know and I'll buy all you have.

Completely agree. That is just how things are now. One would easily end up paying $3000 for a commuter e bike that is capable of maintaining 35 mph uphill.

I'll take your suggestion and show up with the amount I'm comfortable paying and leave if they don't accept. I don't like playing their games.

I paid $2200 for my GTS250, via CL. It did have 22,000 miles on the clock, and in good condition.
The Buddy is a great scoot, but the Vespa is in another class.

If economy of operation is your primary consideration, I don't think I'd recommend a 15 year old GTS unless you were sure you could do most minor and major maintenance yourself.

$3700 for a 2009 250 with 4K miles is a bit steep. It also depends on condition (paint damage, seat wear, other scratches), and recent maintenance.

If the belt is original, it should be changed.
If the tires are more the 5-7 years old, they should be changed.
Coolant and Brake Fluid should be changed every 2-3 years.
Pull out the seat bucket and inspect lines and hoses for dry rot and good connections.

Point of reference, I bought a 2007 GTS 250 with 5K miles in March of '22 and paid $3,300.

The used vehicle market here in the US is insane. Values have been increasing for used vehicles, both cars and MCs.

I would go to the dealer with $3200 in cash, look over the bike carefully (check tire date codes, any maintenance records, inspect for damage). If the tires are old, take off $200 to buy and mount new tires. Damage or no maintenance records, take off another $200. Only one key, take off another $100.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Here's a few current Facebook MP low mile listings in the Los Angeles area for shitz and giggles...

2012 GTS Super 300 7700 miles $3600
2011 GTS 300 1700 mile $2750
2007 GTS 250 1400 miles $4250

dam with everyone saying these high prices for 10+ yr old GTS I might have to put mine on the market.

Owner of two 15+ year old GTS'.

One had a voltage regulator replaced. Had the original owner been attentive it would have been covered under warranty.

What economy of operation ticking time bombs am I about to discover?

At the present moment, my insurance is about $120 USD/year because the risk is so low on these and the replacement value is so low.

I can get an oil change kit for about $40 USD.

Basically as long as I ride it about 1,000 miles, rather than taking my cage, the Vespa pays for its annual cost.

If I ride more than 1,000 miles per year, which I do, the almost 20 year old GTS pays for itself more and more each year. Eventually I will sell it for probably the same or more than I bought it for. It's extremely economical and from what I read on MV, more reliable (or at least less prone to burning oil) than the modern HPEs are.

For reference, I recently traded in a 2006 and a 2007 GTS250ie for my new 2023 scooters. the 2006 had around 10k miles, the 2007 was at about 4k. I received around $2,500 each for the, not as much as I could theoretically receive by selling them myself, which I figured at around $3k, but mid winter is not prime scooter selling season (and, the shop was offering a deal I could not refuse).

As others have noted, you should factor in the costs for replacement of tires and minor service items (belt, hoses, fluids, etc.)

Best wishes for a favorable outcome, keep us posted.

Cheers,

Bob

bought 2007 250ie Vespa for $2000 needing tires . the bike ran and drove well. A 2009at this time I feel $2500 is a good deal and $3000 if you are drooling over it. It is best to be ready to walk away from a purchase you feel may be over priced. I see a 2013 Vespa 300 with less that 3000 miles being for sale at $3300 dollars that I might purchase if It is still there when I make up my mind. have cash be willing to travel and you can find a fair priced Vespa.

I live right in the city. This is so key.

Every time I've had a "I can't believe I bought this for so cheap!" it was a bike I drove 2-3 hours to go buy.

And every time I've had a "I can't believe I sold it for my (bold) asking price!" it was sold to someone who took either the bus, or a bicycle, to come see it (in other words, they had no car and were stuck choosing something close to home).

Frank is right, have cash and be willing to travel... Just ask a lot of screening questions and try to get the seller on the phone before you invest time and ga$ driving all over the place. If they are hard to get on the phone, assume you'll find bad surprises, and decide accordingly if it's worth the mission out to them or not. Happy hunting.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I've never even owned a scooter, so I don't know how to inspect the belt or remove the seat bucket to inspect hydraulic lines. Can someone tell me or show me how?

Once it's removed the hoses are easy enough to inspect I imagine, I'll just look for dry rot, cracking, leaking, etc

Does inspecting the belt or hoses or hydraulic lines involve a lot of disassembly (an unreasonable amount) or a lot of tools?

What are some major things to look for, or signs the belt needs to be replaced? Does the belt have a date code?

What are some other major things to look for, red flags or things that suggest it's been abused or damaged or had major parts replaced or been in a wreck?

Need to take care of a few minor things before I head back to the dealership. I will keep everyone posted about how much I end up offering, what they say, etc. And I'll definitely post a lot of photos if I end up taking it home.

I'm hoping I do, I like it and would probably end up keeping it for a long time if I bought it. I take very good care of every vehicle I've owned. Of course emotions shouldn't be the deciding factor here.

Bucket removal is super easy. It just lifts out. All rubber lines can be touched and pulled apart to check for dry rot. It sounds like it has had a pampered sheltered life with very little mileage use. I wouldn't worry about it too much. I'm willing to bet it still has all the EVAP crap still on it.

Belt inspection is a little indepth. Can be done with basic tools in 20 minutes. Again with its low mileage, it will have the original belt. Age is kinda bad for scooter belts. I have the same scoot you're looking at. Currently at 8k miles. Original belt. Last inspection was still perfect. I'll look again at 12k. Some riders religiously change em at 5k-7k. My Burgman scoot has 15k on its belt. I'll change it soon just so I'm not left stranded.

I also doubt it has been crashed or wrecked. It is very easy for an insurance policy to total out a Vespa -- just from falling over or a small 5mph layover. The side panels get damaged the worse. Body shop quotes for paint repair can be $1K just from tipping over. If it ever was damaged, most likely it would have a salvaged title.

The date code on the tires are critical. Are they new ???? Or 14 years old. Plan on $250-$300 to replace em if needed.

The GTS250 is a phenomenal little scoot. I like em more than the 300's. Mine gets 76 mpg if I don't hotrod it everywhere.
I know a test Ride will make you smile ear to ear. As long as you're comfortable with price, you won't be disappointed.

I'm near Nashville if you would like a crash course in gaining Vespa knowledge. They are a different breed from the Jap Bikes. There are several other Jap models of scoots to choose from as well if this GTS doesn't work out.

I'm here to help any way I can. Pm me, I open for phone calls too.

Darren

shootnscoot - there are a ton of great videos on youtube for almost anything you're curious about looking up, many are done by Mitch's Scooter Stuff and by 'Robot' on the Scooterwest channel.

Mitch (is a super nice guy, I believe he's also part deaf, which means he shows you very clearly and precisely, even without words, how to do many tasks related to inspecting/servicing/replacing.

Robot on the scooter west channel has a ton of great videos as well, his videos just tend to be longer.

Donttellmywife - great username

Scroll down to Modern Vespa Wiki on this site where you will find numerous videos and articles on self maintenance…it's very educational

By comparison I bought my 2007 GTS in 2009 in perfect condition with less than 2000 miles on it and new tires for $2000.

Those days are gone.

See if the consensus has another scooter just like it for that $2000, and buy it from them. Whenever I've heard Kelly Blue Book prices from someone trying to get me to come off the price on a really clean low mile Vespa, my reply is to go buy it from the Kelly Blue Book. You can find Vespas of that year and model that are worth $4000 to someone with $4000, and Vespas of that year and model that you would need to pay someone to haul away.

My concern with this particular bike is that it's silver. That is not a particularly desirable color, and is usually worth about 4-600 less than the same make, model, year and condition GTS in Red or Black. It's not a polarizing color, like lime green or hot pink, where you either love it or hate it, but it's one of those colors that nobody really gets emotional about. A lot of people like the idea of a red Vespa, and that's why they are willing to pay more for that color. This will matter when and if you go to resell it.

As far as checking the belt, etc, the odds are that any dealership is not going to let you start removing things with a screwdriver. I would bounce anyone who wanted to take parts off so they could inspect something on a bike I was selling. Because sooner or later, someone's going to come in with the amount they want and leave on the bike without trying to get the seller to jump through hoops.

I get the whole take it or leave it offer approach. But if you walk when you're only fifty or a hundred dollars apart, that seems sort of dumb. And if they immediately accept it, you won't want to go through with the deal because in the back of your mind, you'll always wonder if you overpaid for the bike. Go in, spend some time looking at the bike, then sit down, let the salesperson write everything up, and put your number on the table first. Make it an embarrassingly low one they would be crazy to take, but not so low that you seem like a nut job. And make sure you specify that you are negotiating the OTD price. I usually come in at about 60% of what they are asking. Then see what they come back with. Don't show cash, that's amateur hour stuff. And leave the laundry list of things that are "wrong" at home. Any time you're negotiating over money, someone is trying to get someone else off their number. Make them get you up off yours, instead of trying to make them get down off theirs. By spending a lot of time with them, they are more involved, and will work harder to make a deal, than if someone out on the showroom blurts out, "I'll give you two grand cash right now." When they do come off their number, they will either give you a big drop, which tells you they don't know how to negotiate either, or they will try to get you to come way up to something near what they are asking. Ignore everything they say to you when they come back with their first counter offer. Your next offer should be about $200 more than your original "crazy" offer, a little closer to the max you are willing to go, but don't just vomit up the absolute most you are willing to pay as your first counter. At this point you can give the salesperson a check for $500 to take in with the offer, so the manager sees you are for real. Make them work to get you up off your number. Strategize two or three bumps before you get to your absolute maximum. And if they eventually come back with something tht's $200 higher than your maximum, take it and enjoy the bike. Be willing to go back and forth until the Sales Manager comes out and tells you that there's nothing left and thanks you for coming in. They'll let you know when they're done. When they are willing to let you walk, their last offer was their best offer.

You shop on your feet, you buy on your seat.

You have a few months left, and then someone's going to walk in with a tax refund check burning a hole in their pocket who wants a Vespa.

Yep, the book values are meaningless.

Most people assume that the are exaggerated by design.

For those that don't know, Kelley Blue Book is owned by Cox Automotive.

Cox Automotive also owns Manheim, the world's biggest used vehicle auctioner.

If you're collecting a commission % of every sale from selling more used vehicles than anyone else, you're going to tell everyone that used vehicles sell for as much as possible.

TLDR: The book values mean SFA, and the publisher can benefit directly by manipulating the numbers.

I will start by saying I only buy pre-owned scoots and have only bought 1 bike out of the 50 I have owned from a dealer. If you do happen to buy from an individual, I would offer the following comments: be prompt - arrive when you said you would, be respectful - this goes along way when trying to do a deal, lastly, don't waste your time or the owner's. Now if the owners price is good, or even a great deal, I won't haggle at all, but this is rare. Usually, I figure what the condition of the scoot is in and go from there. For instance: I'll mention that the price, say $2800, is a fair price for your GTS250 in good condition. But it has 8000 miles on it and it is going to need X amount of work and parts. If I still want it I will see if the owner will negotiate the price of the PARTS. If not, I shake hands thank them for their time and leave. Dealers are another situation altogether and I would suggest following Motovista's advice to the letter. I will mention that I recently visited a dealer about a pre-owned Honda CB300r. The price was decent, but of course, there was another $800 to be tacked on at the OTD price. Since I live in another state than the dealer location, I offered to bring a trailer and take care of all the state DMV paperwork and taxes. That cut it down about $400. Then they asked about trade in. I had my bike there and wasn't really interested in trading in but would be willing to listen to their offer. Of course they gave me a whole sale price for it. I told I would be back in the spring after I sold the bike on my own and did not want to waste anymore of their time. They need to make money to keep the doors open, so I would not have quibbled over a few hundred, but it was much more than that. Good luck with the hunt.

In the US, we negotiate the purchase price of real estate and motor vehicles. In some countries, they negotiate the price of dinner. That makes you a much better negotiator than someone who does it reluctantly every four years or so, or very hungry. Saturn tried to take negotiations out of the purchase process. That lasted a few years, and people still wanted to haggle about what their trade is worth. Which is negotiating with the company you went to because they don't negotiate. And there is an easy way to avoid negotiating the price of a vehicle, and that's to pay the price on the window sticker. But people who don't want to negotiate don't want to do that either.

Up until recently, I would never have considered buying a used vehicle from a Dealer. But a lot has changed. There are so many used cars and bikes that have been under six feet of water, but weren't totaled by an insurance company, and there are a lot of private sellers on Facebook and Craigslist who are privately selling ten or fifteen personal vehicles at a time. I would steer clear of any private seller who doesn't have the title in their name, unless you're buying the Buick LeSabre they inherited from Grandma. Usually someone who is selling a vehicle, but not on the title, is in the business of buying and selling vehicles, but is not subject to all those pesky rules and regulations regarding disclosure of material facts that someone who has a dealership license is. There's not a lot that sours the ownership experience as much as being told by the service department that the Vespa you just bought on Facebook Marketplace saw duty as a submarine, because the previous owner didn't have comprehensive, so there was no insurance claim, but did possess the necessary skill set to figure out how to get live fish out from under the floorboard and make it run again long enough for you to buy it.

You're right, but there are always exceptions. In this case, the actual die-hard passionate folk.

You'll find them on your local motorcycle forums/facebook groups, on the ones specific to the model, maybe even on youtube, etc. We pick up neglected forgotten motorcycles, carefully going through them, sometimes we ride around on them for a month or a season, sometimes as soon as we're satisfied we post them for sale to make way for the next fun project we want to get our hands on.

It's like catching an injured animal, giving it the TLC it needs to stand on it's own two wheels again, and then releasing it back into the wild.

Just be sure to ask these people for receipts. Anybody who really is passionate about their project probably has 127 badly lit pictures and video clips of their work and progress on their phone, if not an entire youtube video about it.

Check their pics and videos out and ask them questions to make sure they really did do the work and that they know what they're doing.

See here for an example of what receipts look like: [SSR] Comparing my Bonneville vs Interceptor vs V7 (Series) (Post 2658561)

You see somebody publicly showing what they have and haven't addressed, and how it's been dealt with, you should still do your due diligence, but they're probably okay.