Modern Vespa

I'm not trying to have a go at EVs but this was so funny in my news feed today

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-17/new-electric-vehicle-roadside-assistance-van-launched/103350262

Roadside rescue van deployed to help electric vehicles stranded on Perth roads

A mobile rescue van for stranded electric vehicles will begin scouring the streets of Perth to help cars that have run out of charge under a trial to encourage EV ownership.

The van is equipped with a mobile charger capable of providing 15 kilometres of range in 20 minutes for drivers who run out of charge.

It's hoped that'll provide enough juice to get a driver in trouble to the nearest charging station.

I'm not expecting it to be used a lot but it will calm peoples fears about buying an EV

I recently picked up a Tesla model 3. I'm trying to see what the whole EV thing is all about. I'm able to charge my car from home, so charging has not been an issue at all. I'm just leasing the car, so I'll see where we are two years from now.

I smile at all the hand wringing about running out of charge and being left at the side of the road. I have been driving an EV for 11 years. That has never happened to me. I've never even come close. FWIW I have not run out of gas in our gasoline or hybrid vehicle in the past 25 years or so either. That is also true of my time on scooters and motorcycles. It is nothing more than planning trips and anticipating requirements.

Just returned from an unplanned trip to New England and I was astounded at the number of charging stations that have popped up there. Even at small gas stations. We don't have nearly that kind of concentration in the midwest. At least in my part of the midwest.

If you run out of charge in NE I think you would almost have to do it on purpose.

Good on ya for planning ahead and attention to detail. Too bad it's about one or two generations away from being a dying art.

The news a couple nights ago simultaneously had a story about the expansion of charging systems in Canada.

Then a few segments later it had a story about rolling power outages in much of the country due to cold weather, leaving people without power for days.

I really wish they would have put one story immediately after the other for comedic effect.

The missus did a research paper in December assessing Canada's preparedness for widespread adaption of the electric automobile, and let's just say, from an infrastructure standpoint we are completely unprepared. I'm not talking about infrastructure like charging stations available to the public, I'm talking, our grid could not handle it, and that's before we even take into account the 500,000 immigrants we're taking in annually (a lot when your population is under 40 mill).

Canada's electric grid is so disconnected, that the two provinces which produce the most electricity (Ontario and Quebec), and also happen to be neighbours to each other, cannot actually share power.

If Ontario has a power shortage, and Quebec has excess (or vice versa) one cannot 'give' the power to help the other, because they use different systems (AC vs DC, basically).

So... the number of charging systems increasing means sweet fuck all, because the grid they rely on is completely unprepared for widespread adaptation.

Total fucking bollocks. Please don't spread FUD.

See https://www.ieso.ca/-/media/Files/IESO/Document-Library/power-data/supply/IntertieReport-20170508.ashx for a review of the interconnect system as it existed in 2017 and the plans for the future (many of which have been implemented).

At a quick glance it says that two out of the six interties can do it, and the other four can't.

I'm assuming if you started researching this the second I posted my post, you spent about 10 minutes on it, using a report from 7 years ago?

My partner's team and the professor they worked with spent weeks on it, last month...

But hey, if you're able to solve all of our electricity problems that quickly, you should move here. You'll make a fortune.

deleted as i overstepped

Who, everybody. Cool your jets.

Be kind to each other and stop with the insults. If you want to discuss this topic, you can do so in a calm and adult manner.

This is what Adri is presumably referring to

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_River_DC_Transmission_System

But at the same time also on wiki

The Canadian transmission networks are largely integrated to the US power grid. There is greater integration and trade with the US than there is between Canada's provinces.

i give myself a 7 day time out for over stepping

the origin of this store is in Perth, Western Australia. Western Australia is not part of the national grid (which includes vic, nsw, qld, sa, tas).

Also there is currently significant area of regional WA with no power after storms took out several transmission towers. Due to the lack of power there is no fuel either (presumably the fuel stations don't have backup generators to run the fuel pumps). Oh and it's 41C with no air con

Touring, that is a road assistance organization here, has similar kind of rescue vans to bring you to the nearest charging station if you get stranded with your EV.
The idea is logical.

So "cannot actually share power" is actually untrue.

Totally a part of it.. I'm going to try to expand, based on what I've been told over dinners together, talks on the couch with my partner, etc.:

- Ontario produces most electricity close to where we need it, so we use AC power transmission from the source to residential.

- Quebec produces most power far from where it needs it, from hydroelectric sources, so it uses DC for long distance transmission to get less loss. Here's a link from hydroquebec: http://www.hydroquebec.com/learning/transport/grandes-distances.html

- Quebec will then convert to AC closer to the end user, because the loss from DC to AC at the end point, is easier than converting from DC to AC and then transmitting it all the way down as AC. They calculate that they suffer less loss doing it this way.

- As JimC pointed out, there are a couple points where the power can go from Quebec to Ontario (everyone cheers, hurray!) except that's only beneficial to people in Eastern Ontario, where relatively speaking, nobody lives! For those that don't know, Ontario is 4x the size of the UK, and transmitting electricity over long distances is very inefficient, so getting that power to the Greater Toronto Area (where over half of everyone in Ontario lives) isn't feasible.

- Because of this massive disconnect, when there was that big blackout that hit a huge part of North America in August 2003, Ontario and many states were screwed, but Quebec was like "lol, we're gonna run our air conditioners on max! sucks to be you!"

- Could Ontario and Quebec exchange power one day in the future? YES, but this has ALWAYS been the case for decades upon decades and it never happens because, then, like, now, neither province has WANTED to PAY for it. No progress in decades on this, and we can revisit this thread in 20 more years and it will probably be the same way.

- The missus also probably told me some bureaucratic crap too, but honestly, if she did it was was probably in one ear and out the other... but I'll just mention bureaucracy anyway for your consideration.

- Finally, like steelbytes pointed out (thanks btw , Quebec is better connected to the US (sharing borders with New York, Vermont and Maine), they are actually better set up to send power to the US than they are to Ontario Please let me know if you stand by this statement. Usually your posts are on point Jim, but I think you'll find you fired your gun prematurely here.

Ah, just realized this is on the other side of Ontario, in the province of Manitoba.

(For context, it goes: Manitoba | Ontario | Quebec)

Going back to the big blackouts across North America in 2003, Ontario had massive power outages, but neither province on either side Manitoba, or Quebec) did, which made our provincial government look really bad.

Looks like Manitoba and Quebec have similar setups, so, I guess it makes sense.

Bringing this back on topic for the thread:
Our grids in Canada really are not well connected, really not ready for extra demand, and when one area gets its ass kicked, the next province over is not set up to help out. The country is too big and the population too sparse and disconnected from one province to the next. We aren't ready for widespread EV adoption here.

Interesting that the math favors DC transmission, apparently because of the high voltage. There's a general perception that AC is more efficient for transmitting longer distances, but that apparently is only true at lower voltages.

Here's a Stack Discussion engineering thread on the topic if anyone wants to go deeper into the physics.

Just watched our national news and in the last few days the UK temperature has gone in to minus figures -3 to -6c night and around +3c day, now from what I've read on here I wouldn't call that extreme, some of you folk reporting -10, - 15c + and we have scores of EVs stranded with dead batteries due to the use of the heater and wipers, literally stopping in the middle of the road and unable to be moved also leaving the breakdown services unable to cope .

I think perhaps I did - but I still stand by this: Which raised my hackles more perhaps than they should have been.

Stranded EVs make more of a news item than stranded fossil fuel powered vehicles, despite cars running out of petrol all the time...
In cold weather, just be sure before your journey you've preheated your EV while still plugged into the mains, so you drive off with a full battery. The main power draw is getting to a comfy interior temperature from a low starting temperature. Once en route, the power draw to maintain that temperature is far less significant.
I've enjoyed starting my winter commute with a full warm, de-iced car without having to scrape off ice while breathing in all the crap from having a fossil fuel powered engine running while you scrape.
Most EVs now allow remote switching on of heating/demisting using an app. No need to step out into the cold until you're ready!
(For summer use you can run air-con in a similar way to step into an already cooled vehicle.)

They do, but at least with a dinosaur powered vehicle you can carry a jerry can or walk to a petrol station and get a gallon.

Bottom line is that EV usage will involve a bit a lot some more forethought compared to ICE, and some people don't want to do that.

Just had a thought ...

It would be good if you could charge an EV directly from another EV. Similar to ringing a friend to come with a jerry can or siphoning from another car

You spoil me with attention, scrutinizing my posts down to the very word like that.

If you'd prefer, I could edit my original post... instead of saying "cannot actually share power", I will edit it as:

"cannot actually share power, to any possible benefit, whatsoever, at all, even in the slightest bit, to the majority of Ontarians, and is therefor, of utter and complete indifference, and totally inconsequent, to the majority of the population of Ontario."

Would that be better for you? Seems a bit ridiculous to me, but if that's what we need for peace on earth just lemme know...

Similar to our cell phones having the ability to charge one off of another too! Never actually tried that though. On our local news we are having stories about the, uhm, 'other' EVs.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-e-bike-battery-fire-1.7072547

"Lithium ion battery fires increased nearly 90% in 2023: Toronto Fire"

55 EV related fires in my city in 2023, vs 29 in 2022.

That post was from a couple weeks ago. Saw another one just yesterday on College St, in downtown Toronto.

If I understand correctly many of these e-bikes are using shoddy aftermarket batteries and bad charging practices that put them at higher risk than your average EV car? - disclaimer: this is only a guess

The scariest EV-related fire so far in the city was on the subway a couple weeks ago (article above) and a few months before that one happened in a house converted to apartment buildings that was attached on one side to Al Flaherty's outdoor store (i.e. full of ammo, gunpowder, kablamo).

I'm told the guy left his charger on for several weeks while he went back to India. The house burned down, but firefighters managed to stop it from reaching the retail store.

My neighbour's rechargeable Dyson vacuum caught on fire and burnt out their living room

Actually the situation is somewhat more complicated than this. The hydropower generation system of the NW US and BC has power surpluses at times of higher river flows and shares power with the SW US through regional power interties. To reduce power loss in long distance transmission, very high voltages are used (typically 230 to 500 kV). The first regional intertie on the West Coast was a DC transmission line. Two AC transmission lines were added later. Turns out that DC and AC each have their advantages for long distance transmission. DC is the most efficient for simply moving a large volume of power a long distance, but AC transmission has more flexibility and most newer regional tranmission lines are high voltage AC. In either case, the power from intertie lines has to be substantially stepped down in voltage and otherwise converted to be compatible with local distribution systems.

Having said all that about interties, I think it is still fair to say that we have a ways to go on the subject of modernizing power grids and making them more efficient. And it isn't primarily about the power requirements of EV charging. Over most of the industrialized world, we are hard at work converting to a fully electricity based energy system to eliminate the use of coal, oil, natural gas, and other carbon based fuels both for direct use and electricity generation. This will put substantial new pressure on our electricity transmission and distribution systems.

That sucks.

I see what you did there.

If I understand correctly many of these e-bikes are using shoddy aftermarket batteries and bad charging practices that put them at higher risk than your average EV car? - disclaimer:

Hey adri, hope you are keeping well, bang on the button, same thing happening over here, but there is some karma a lot of these E scooters and bikes are getting stolen and the scrote has to get a charger, so steals, adapts or buys the cheapest one on eBay and then burns his property down this has happened a few times.

Been reading the above posts, again over here in the UK Its a known fact our grid will not handle the demand as the sales of EVs increase, The present government keep passing it off basically saying don't worry people it will all come good 🤔, reading some stats the other day at present in the UK for every 30 EVs there is 1 public charger and at motorway services fights are breaking out Stay safe mate 😉👍

This is why i gave the example of my neighbour's Dyson

In the US, AAA has a pilot program underway with mobile charging trucks, mostly on the East and West coasts.

Because they stole their Dyson? Because they were running aftermarket batteries in their Dyson? Because they bought a cheap charger for their stolen Dyson with aftermarket batteries????

Kidding, I get it. They were running a mainstream brand appliance, from a quality brand name, that they probably paid a premium price for, and it still went into fireplace mode in their living room sorry btw

Serious questions though:

Are there differences between the lithium batteries in these things that keep catching fire and the ones used in cars? If yes, what?

If not, can the average used car buyer tell whether or not the battery of the car he or she is looking at has been messed with?

let's do some googling ...

Tesla were using Lithium-Ion but are switching to a type of Lithium-Iron-Phosphate. The battery I just installed in my GTS is a type of Lithium-Iron-Phosphate.

Pretty much anything else I googled uses Lithium-Ion such as the above mentioned Dyson or a Razor eScooter although Lithium-Iron-Phosphate is available as an after market for these scooters.

I'd bet most of the 'cheap crap' that are the reputed problem are Lithium-Ion.

So to attempt to answer your question: probably the same class but could be different minor variants of Lithium-Ion and definitely different BMS.

I'd be blaming the BMS / charger not the lithium flavour

The name "lithium" or "lithium ion" tends to be used generically, even when the chemistry is something else or something more specific.

I really don't understand why we don't have ICE vacuum cleaners.

cats would probably be even more upset

With loud pipes?

Aren't they loud enough already?

Aren't (insert anything where people seem to want "loud pipes")?