Modern Vespa

I recently sold my 2017 Leaf, which I bought used in 2020 for $17K. I had a 30 amp/240 volt circuit installed and found a charger that used a plug in wall brick to give me 3.3kw for overnight charging. I also got a dongle that I could use at any KOA or RV park on their 50 amp RV hookups. I never had much luck with Electrify America. Their J1772 and Chademo "pumps" 40 miles west and 60 miles east of me on I-20 always seemed to be broken when I took short trips out of town. You may already know, Leafs are designed to be electrically bi-directional if you can find a Chademo compatible wall box. They've been available in Japan for 10 years, and would allow your car to run your house for several days in an emergency.
I loved the car, but the battery finally degraded to 75% capacity (at full charge) so I filed a warranty claim (guaranteed 80% for 10 years or 100k miles) with Nissan for a replacement battery. Nissan couldn't find me a battery and, after 4 months of looking, bought the car back from me at the price I paid in 2020. Plus, they gave me a family/employee price on a new Nissan. I didn't buy a new Leaf because my finances wouldn't allow it, even with the discount, but I loved the car and will buy electric again at some point when the industry shakes itself out.

Long story short, keep the 10yr/100K warranty in mind, and keep an eye on your battery capacity starting about the 5 year point. You might end up with a new battery or a new car on Nissan's dime. Best of luck.

There's a quoted reference/ snippet at the top of the link you posted earlier this thread (the Google result), I thought you were linking to the large quote at the top, and not the links under it.

Re: the tldr - agreed, not unanswerable, just something I was unable to answer.

Thanks for the link here, it's a good read, technical enough to give faith in it but worded simply enough I could follow along.

seamus26 here's my new answer. I copied Jess ' homework: But even still... this doesn't explicitly state if that's in a place where renewable energies used are 100% of energy generated or 1% of it... So... We might have to look up the actual study to really be able to answer your question, as you asked about a specific number.

That's awesome! Wish I could get back the price I paid on my vehicle three years ago... I only put 95k km on it

Seriously though, we had a similar story in the news over here last month. This guy's leaf was one year older than yours. He's been waiting for a battery for a full year:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7066842 I don't normally feel for cars like I do for bikes but imagine how sitting for a year is effecting that poor cars other components... What a shit show. Makes you wonder who picks up the tab if his brakes and other parts are all seized up.

I've shared this before, but I enjoyed it so much I'm sharing it again.

It's 13 minutes, but worth the time.

EVs are not about being perfect, because they aren't. But given the choice of "better", why is the choice so hard?

Right out of the gate, one pump jack for crude oil uses 9960kWh/month of electricity to operate. That would power a Tesla for 34,860 miles. That's just to get the oil out of the ground.

Hmmm ...

Great video. We didn't even touch on the impact of oil spills.

Well sure. As you noted, we would otherwise have perpetual motion. Even the most efficient machines have to deal with some amount of friction, heat loss, wind resistance, and the like.

CBC (Canada's public broadcaster) Marketplace is a show similar to 60 Minutes in the US. They did a piece on the EV situation in Canada. It came out two days ago, was shot in the winter, and paints a picture that some of you fairweather EV'ers may find interesting as a "different take".

I always understood that the cold would negatively impact that battery's range... I didn't think that having to crank the heat (as we do 4+ months of the year) would also be so taxing on the battery too. One woman was doing her driving with the heat off to be able to make her trip For perspective: when it's below freezing I'd rather be on the bike with some heated gear than in the car with the heat off.

Another new piece of info for me was that they only found one charging station where customer pay based on kwh or how much charge they actually get. The rest of the charging stations made you pay by time, regardless of how much you did or didn't get in that time. As a result, across five different brands, you could pay half, or double the price from $5.20 to $10.09 for the exact same amount of charge.

Here we normally see $0.00 to $0.03 / liter variance. It's about a 2% variance in price. There's no paying half here or twice the price there. Is that an issue down there too, or a uniquely Canadian thing?

Another Canadian angle to it: A study found that range can be cut nearly in half in the winter, our norm for 1/3 to 1/2 of the year up here. They point out that manufacturers should provide a cold weather range, or extreme cold weather range, rather than simply a fairweather range, and that should be made mandatory. You would think given the climate we already would have this, right?

The fact the Canadian Environment Minister says to the reporter that this is the first time he's heard this idea is... not surprising. My choice of words comes from not wanting to make this political, but, you can watch the reporter's facial reactions to everything the Environment Minister says and form your own opinion

The rest (issues at 7 out of 12 charging stations they try, people waiting 1+ year for a battery warranty replacement, etc.) are probably fairly standard across the board.

Video here:

Of course, you might think, if Norway can do that, why not Canada? But it's actually a weird comparison... The two countries are very different. Norway is tiny, has 1/6th our population in a country 1/30th the size. Compared to us, everything and everyone is jammed close together. They drive less per year on average, and a trip across the longest part of Norway can be done in under 1000 miles, whereas if I drive west for 1000 miles I still haven't even gotten out of my home province. From what I understand their grid is also way better set up too (again, probably because everyone and everything is closer together). In Norway they can actually use electricity to heat everyone's homes. Here we have to rely on natural gas.

I think the real question is when would Canada be ready to do this? and considering our Environmental Minister never even considered that maybe vehicles should come with a winter range rating... I think it might be a while.

Gas prices - In California Chevron can be charging $5.20 per US gallon, across the road Rotten Robbie can be selling for $4.25.

Electricity prices at charging stations vary hugely too.

Wow, that's a 20+% variance on gas. For that kind of difference here you would have to either go somewhere very remote, or go to a native reservation.

Our government tax on fuel is like... maybe roughly 20% plus another $0.20 cents per liter... I think about 1/3-ish of the price of our fuel is just government stuff that we don't have to pay on the native reserves... so if you ever hear us talking about buying gas from the natives, or you're ever in a border town like Niagara Falls, and you wonder why there are a lot of cars with canadian license plates filling up, now you know

Re: electric price varying down there too, ty, did not know.

Thanks for sharing the video. It mostly mirrors my experience with our 2024 Leaf, which I quite enjoy. It's important for EV buyers to understand the limitations of the vehicles in terms of cold weather range and public charging. You need to go into EV ownership with more knowledge than the window sticker and EV charging companies will give you, and the reporter does (with deep bias) do a good job of pointing out the problems with little mention of the benefits.

A few notes:

In many of the segments on charging station issues, she was driving a Nissan Leaf (my car!). In the U.S. the Leaf is the OG EV. Its fast charging technology, CHAdeMO, is also the OG fast charging technology. CHAdeMO tech is being phased out; essentially, the Leaf is the only available new car using CHAdeMO technology being imported/made in the U.S. in large quantities. I've read that many companies are even moving to Tesla fast charging as the new "standard". In any event, she was likely testing on some of the oldest fast chargers (as CHAdeMO is the oldest platform) on a waning platform (leading to less incentive keeping up with charger maintenance/repairs). Of course she's going to have issues! I will say, I haven't personally used a CHAdeMO bank of chargers without encountering problems (problems that were overcome, yet still a hassle). I expect reliability of the Tesla network is better, but I've no data to support that.

Lines exist at chargers, at times. Also, we don't live in polite Canada. I've already been in an argument with someone who was in the wrong spot at a bank of chargers. He wouldn't move his car to a different charger so that I could get my car on the only CHAdeMO charger available; again, he was incorrectly parked in the CHAdeMO space while using a separate charger. I was pissed off, let him know what a dick he was being, and he moved. It wasn't a pleasant experience. I read about a shooting over a charger last week. Welcome to America!

I didn't do the math, but it's likely public charging could be more expensive than buying gasoline, at least in Connecticut. In CT, energy prices are some of the highest in the country, cold weather decreases range, and gas prices are hovering around $3.00 per gallon. So much for saving money!

Worst case scenario- assume your standard range will drop by 1/2 in extremely cold weather.

The battery replacement issue sounds like a nightmare. Such delays do happen with ICE cars, too. I have a friend who is a mechanic for Kia. Kia had an issue with their ignition systems being easily hacked which led to lots of Kia thefts. This summer, he told me his dealership's lot was full of Kias, recovered after theft, that could not be repaired because the parts were unavailable. Most of them had been there for months.

I did research on Consumer Reports before I bought the Nissan Leaf. The Leaf is one of the more reliable EVs according to Consumer Reports. The reliability ratings in CR don't necessarily indicate that other EVs are very reliable. Certainly, taken as a group, EVs are much less reliable than a run-of-the-mill ICE Toyota.

Basically, if you are thinking of an EV, do your research - consider potential reliability, know the limitations of the public charging network, expect your range will decrease significantly in cold weather, plan to spend some money to get a level 2 charger at home (and if your electric panel can't handle the extra load, this may require a more costly panel upgrade), and if you are doing it for cost savings, calculate the cost of your EV's increased electricity usage given your local electricity rates versus your area's gasoline prices. I don't think EV ownership is wise for everyone. There are a ton of reasons, especially in Connecticut, against EV ownership, especially as a sole mode of transportation.

On the other hand, if you don't want to pollute as much, have solar panels (we do), are tired of oil (and other fluid) changes, enjoy instant torque, get a kick out of cool technology, don't make too many long trips (or have an ICE car for long trips), want to take advantage of government subsidies, and/or want an EV for a variety of other good reasons, go for it. Having gone into EV ownership with eyes wide open, we have no regrets about the Leaf.

Good write-up, thanks theschuman

Re: CHAdeMO, this is all news to me. I figured everything just takes USB-C now, what the heck? (kidding)

Seriously though, I didn't realize that there are separate chargers for separate systems. I figured there would just be different adapters and you just keep yours with you, or that there's some sort of mode select at the charger to make everything more universal.

I was surprised the video didn't encourage people to rent one for a week before buying. Going into it with "eyes wide open" like you said seems best. Living with an EV for a week would before committing a lot of money would help make or break the dream for a lot of people on the fence.

Good point about charging… I believe there are some adapters within the other fast charging systems, but not so with the Leaf. Potential EV buyers should AVOID the Leaf if fast charging is a priority… No adapters from the other fast charging platforms to CHAdeMO currently exist from Nissan and 3rd party solutions seem unlikely due to CHAdeMO effectively going away. Maybe Tesla will come to the rescue of CHAdeMo and make an adapter for their chargers?! A good article on the incompatibility of CHAdeMO:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/nissan-isnt-making-a-nacs-ccs-ev-charging-adapter-for-leaf-owners

I am also a LEAF owner and I have done the math - at least in my area, The cost of charging in my own garage is about one third the cost of fueling a gasoline compact car (based on miles). And, unfortunately, the cost of fast charging (level 3) is at least three times the cost of charging at home (level 2). It can be even worse because fast charging rates aren't entirely based on amount of charge delivered. In other words, the entire fuel cost of driving an EV disappears. My numbers are for CHAdeMO. I don't know how Tesla fast chargers work out.

(BTW schuman - check your PMs)

Thanks for the PM. One other fueling consideration: At least around me, we still have some "free" level 2 chargers. Our town's high school has two. My son just had a basketball game there. While watching the game, I charged to 99% at no cost to me.

Have to put my glasses on. I couldn't for the life of me figure out what Kurt Vonnegut had to do with EVs ...

Someone needs to send a rescue vehicle to this Tesla...




https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2-LzHvN1ts/?igsh=d3MydWJpcW5uajNwo

To rescue the car from it's owners

That physically hurt to watch. "Honey I think someone keyed our car."

As far as water on the windshield. When I lived in Florida, in the few times it got cold enough for a frost, I was not suprised when native born co-workers cracked their windshields doing this. They don't have the experience. I would think though that any one north of Valdosta, GA would know better.

I've driven crap cars that I wax and wipe with a diaper. These people infuriate me.

Pretty sure I added a fresh wrinkle to my face from how hard I was cringing watching that lol

Valencia died from carbon monoxide poisoning after a fender bender.

My mother had a nice Chevelle back in the day. She would wash it with a floor mop. Scratches galore! It hurt me to see the paint on that car.

Maybe Tesla buyers aren't so "smart" after all... Who on this earth thinks it's Ok to use a shovel to scrape snow off a painted car?
Unbelievable.

Yesterday we hit ~75º. In February. In Michigan.

Because I was transporting my son I drove rather than riding. But, the warm weather really helps the FIAT's MPGe. Here's my full day's driving yesterday.

Cheaper than riding the Aprilia.

And geez Louise ... now it's 25º with an 11º wind chill and snowing after thunderstorms and tornados last night.