Modern Vespa

Looking forward to some more info on this:

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/cylinder-sip-200-cc_41470730

Looks like an alu version of stock, with just the boost port and two side(ish) ports forming five ports in the cylinder, and what is hopefully a good quality piston with thinner rings. The miniscule details specify a 57mm crank, so wonder what timing you'll get with a longer stroke? The ports look a bit rough.

Clearly not a performance play, but could be interesting for a stock+ kind of setup.

Nice to see they fixed the symmetry of the exhaust port between the main transfers, but then they went and put the boost port off center

Can you explain please?

asymmetric ports.

I like this cylinder more than the stock and think it could rock with a GS piston.

edit: I also like that they kept it the stock bore.

great thanks!

Looks like someone should try one. This could be the stock plus everyone asks for.

I'm tempted to order one to put on the shelf next to the SERIE PRO till I get around to trying either of them.

I'd be VERY interested in one of them. Who wants to go first?

My main question would be how does that aluminum cylinder compare to the cast iron?..as in for looooong term reliability and maintenance? It's fairly easy to bore or hone a cast iron cylinder. You can also get quite a few oversized pistons for the cast iron.

Second question is, what quality nikasil plating did sip use?

I'm game. Hoping to put the white P on the lift in late February, early March. Mostly interested in the heat dissipation, since my stock iron bore tended to heat soak on longer rides in the summer.

Can't tell if the transfers are bigger than the bore at the base of the cylinder.

Or if they're like the stock cylinder and only the boost port protrudes.

Looks perfect for my old Rally 200 my kid now has and just got running, but it has a worn out top end & low compression . I was thinking the Serie Pro which is about same money & comes w/ a GS piston, but what piston does this new one come with?

Second that!

When jetted correctly (which is super duper simple even for me), none of my stock cast iron 200 jugs has never given me any sort of heat related grief. My commute on the highway is a 30 mile ride with a couple decent hills. I can hold the throttle open anywhere from 55 to 70mph the whole time without any hint of overheating...even at 100 degrees outside. But that's on a stock P200 24/24 and a Sito+. 120/BE3/125 main, 55/160 idle, B8ES plug. Now if we're talking an O tune porting or a zero squish high compression head somewheres in the mix, then i can see an aluminum cylinder to be beneficial for controlling the heat better. It was well proven that the old cast iron Polini 208 kit created just way to much heat to be a reliable touring cylinder.

So my thought is that the juice won't be worth the squeeze if you just want to swap out a good running cast iron cylinder for an aluminum one. Now if you're in need of a new 200 cylinder, then that's where i see an aluminum jug more enticing!

I'm on the verge of going to first overbore. It has 22K on the original bore and I already picked up a 1st oversized GS Piston so I could try an O-Tune. Piston died in 117F weather after having to get off a closed access road and onto an interstate.

Even before that incident, I'd run a borrowed TrailTech on the plug while doing short pulls on the near-city interstate where the posted limit is more achievable. While it wasn't problematic at the time, if I did a nice long pull and then backed down to cruise, the TT would climb up 10-15 degrees. When I slowed down a bit and cruised for a few miles, the temp would hold until I pulled over and let it cool for awhile.

Mind you, observed temps never went over 290F, but I normally was testing in double-digit weather and the TTO was not installed when the piston failed.

It's really hard to tell. The supplied gasket is like a stock one, so my assumption is that the side port protrusion is non-existent, and those little cut-outs at the base of the piston are feeding the side transfers. Therefore no mods on the case would be 'necessary', suiting people who wanted to keep their cases factory spec. but wanted an improved performance (and heat?) dynamic, whatever that looks like with this cylinder.

If warmed up correctly, I don't really see the advantage of alu vs iron on stock engine. The alu one might wear quicker and you can't bore it.

Stock iron cylinder is very solid, as long as the warm up time is good and the jetting is right.

COSAs had a stock aluminum cylinder from factory and it was bulletproof (made by Gilardoni)…

And this is with the stock 92 main jet. Aluminium cylinders only wear when set up very very badly.
This SIP kit looks better than stock iron in every way. More transfers, thin rings, squarer exhaust port. With a spring and o ring type exhaust, it will last a very long time.
I already have a reserve cylinder on the shelf for my PX200, otherwise I'd be buying one.

You've got me sold! Finalizing my SIP order tomorrow and will order one. Probably be a week or so before I can get pics.

Looks interesting might be a bit more long haul use in mind in place of a street racer very exciting.

Me too almost, but do you think this is a GS piston?

Excited to hear about this!

I just noticed the circlips in both those photos: neither of those are GS pistons. The Serie pro does come with a GS piston (or did years ago when O got one to keep as a spare) so likely just a mix up in the photo.

GS piston...

I don't think it's a brand? So maybe it's a style that's supposed to be like an original GS160 piston??? Please tell me more about the proper GS piston that came w/ your Serie Pro, and maybe share a pic. I know they have thinner rings, but what makes a piston a legit GS piston when it's made for a 200cc motor??

Edit: I was wrong, Grand Sport IS a brand, and their pistons have the round wire type wrist pin retainers as noted!

The Serie Pro shows two different pistons. Once again, SIP sucks…

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/cylinder-serie-pro-200-cc_41470700

With all that said, the piston with this new kit looks to be more 'engineered' to mate with this new cylinder and if the port layout improvement already highlighted is any sign, then it seems that they've done a good job on the DESIGN end of things, now we find out how their quality control is in PRODUCTION. Somebody dare ask SIP who makes it?

If the piston is decent and the nicasil is too, I think I'm a likely buyer here, so I'll await first reports.

I noticed that this piston might breathe just a bit better if these differences help as I'd expect:
1) the window by the wrist pin is slightly enlarged, probably same other side
2) the window for the center boost port definitely looks bigger
3) the notches at the bottom to match up w/ those big windows in the cylinder skirt

Makes sense… wonder if it's a missed opportunity though…

Interested in how people get on with it.

Looking forward to hearing what the port timing is. I expect it to be not much more than stock but that will make all the difference.

Been a while since I posted last time...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/107236579867807

ooh la la. Bonjour. Not surprised you have one already.

Here's your google version for the readers;
I touched the new SIP aluminum 200 kit in 66.5 mm. Something that seems to come from Asia. It's not very well finished, very poorly chamfered, but the architecture is interesting. It is a 5 transfers, with split main ones, of quite small section. The exhaust is centered in relation to the sides where originally this is not the case. The other side of the coin is the boost which is found in an asymmetrical position in relation to the laterals. We'll see if it works. The boost port opens almost at a right angle into the cylinder. Not great, that. The nikasil seems very thick and very resistant to grinding.
The piston is a near original with cutouts in the skirt to feed the low laterals into the crankcase. You still have to open these casings to fully enjoy them. Grand Sport type segments.
Overall it gives me the impression of being a good basis for working on it fiercely and extracting interesting potential from it. It seems unbreakable, especially at the piston level. We are far from the shitty pistons from Pinasco…
Lateral T:120
Boost port 110
E 168
Not bad….

So that's really ok. Some deburr to do, then bolt it on. With the low numbers the boost port is probably fine. And base transfers won't matter. Nicasil does look very thick.
Next thing is to know how it goes. I expect it will ride just like the iron cylinder but with more go to pull the 35 tooth. With the thin rings it will last forever. Merci.

Nice translation. Mind the transfert wall thickness. You are quickly outside....

well if anything, an aluminum cylinder will cost less to ship than a heavy cast iron.

My mate ordered Serie Pro kit for his PX200E.

Here how it looks:
In SIP-branded box

Pardon for being devil's advocate here:

Could this be an iron or steel sleeve that was either pressed or cast into an aluminum cylinder??

11 cooling fins vs 13 fins of the original cast-iron cylinder. Cooling merits or demerits?? Malossi, Polini, Pinasco all have fewer than 13 fins but those are known Nikasil-plated, aluminum cylinders, which have fantastic heat transfer properties.

Seems the price is quite low, comparatively, to be an aluminum, Nikasil-plated cylinder, in my humble opinion.

Just trying to look at this with eyes wide open...

caveat emptor

photos below from the above FB post

This is just an aluminum barrel nikasil coated. Half the price of a Malossi/Pinasco/etc... Could worth buying it.
PS: Gudgeon pin too big for the piston! Sounds strange but you'll need to find the rightly sized one elsewhere. The one fitted on a stock piston fits perfectly...

Hi All,
I ordered one today........
Will post on here my thoughts when it arrives .


Mo...........

TY Mole!

Looking forward to hearing some reviews from you guys that are gonna run them.

I am blessed that the aftermarket world supports these scooters and there is pretty much an unlimited amount of performance parts. If I had to replace my stock cylinder I would definitely gravitated towards an aluminum replacement for similar money(what we are discussing on this topic) but I will be honest, I personally would be the time of person that would pitch in a little bit more of money and go for a known proven brand specially like Polini or Malossi.

I still think that offering an aluminum option for similar price as a original iron kit is a win-win situation.

More photos to come

Matches the FB photos. Anyone have any questions?