Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4469 Location: Florence, OR |
Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5222 Location: Oceanside, CA |
UTC
quote
qascooter wrote: Cool, thanks for the pics. What about the exhaust stub? Is it aluminum?
Positive
|
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4469 Location: Florence, OR |
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4732 Location: London UK |
UTC
quote
Looks better quality in your pictures.
What are the dimensions to deck, ex port, main transfer? Where does PBT sit when bolted on a 57mm crank with stock 0.2mm base gasket? How wide is the exhaust port? Maybe rub out a port map with some dimensions on it. You going to have it running soon? Would be nice to compare by fitting on a fully stock motor. |
|
UTC
quote
Hi all just had to pay import VAT on this......
£48.66 So be aware if ordering from UK. Mo......... |
|
UTC
quote
Mole wrote: Hi all just had to pay import VAT on this...... £48.66 So be aware if ordering from UK. Mo......... |
Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5222 Location: Oceanside, CA |
UTC
quote
Jack221 wrote: Looks better quality in your pictures. What are the dimensions to deck, ex port, main transfer? Where does PBT sit when bolted on a 57mm crank with stock 0.2mm base gasket? How wide is the exhaust port? Maybe rub out a port map with some dimensions on it. You going to have it running soon? Would be nice to compare by fitting on a fully stock motor.
Positive
|
Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5222 Location: Oceanside, CA |
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14997 Location: The state of insanity, SoCal |
UTC
quote
I *really* like the piston.
did it come with circlips or wire clips? what's the difference in ring width? casting looks a bit better than the alum Indian 200 plus cylinders I was playing with a bit go, that's for sure. definitely a viable option if you're already looking at an next over or a wasted barrel. |
|
UTC
quote
MJRally wrote: Found this on SIP https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/cylinder-piaggio-200-cc_41470800 |
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4732 Location: London UK |
UTC
quote
MJRally wrote: Don't have time to bolt it on. Leaving for two week work trip tomorrow morning. Here's some rubbings. Exhaust port width @ 41.30mm measured on paper. Will put it on my bone stock minus a Road 2.0. Exhaust port width is an opportunity. That 41.3mm is just under 60%. If those rings are 1.5mm it will go to 65% which is 43mm. While at it, 1mm up on the exhaust port would improve top end, with loss not below stock bottom end. Seems ideal for guys who just want a bit more.
Positive
|
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4732 Location: London UK |
UTC
quote
whodatschrome wrote: Somebody's fibbing at SIP. I looked up their part number for the original cast iron PX200 cylinder that they used on their dyno graph. P/N 41470800. And i quote, "Is your old cylinder kit worn out, reconditioning not worth the effort anymore or do you want to pimp your aged 10PS PX ride with the better performing 12PS original PIAGGIO cylinder kit? We are able to offer the high-quality 12PS PIAGGIO PX 200 cylinder at a fair enough price!" https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/cylinder-piaggio-200-cc_41470800 |
|
UTC
quote
MJRally wrote: Don't have time to bolt it on. Leaving for two week work trip tomorrow morning. Here's some rubbings. Exhaust port width @ 41.30mm measured on paper. Will put it on my bone stock minus a Road 2.0. Looks like there's plenty of meat on the exhaust port to take out… |
|
UTC
Hooked
Joined: UTC
Posts: 207 Location: no matter where you go, there you are |
|
|
UTC
quote
Following with great interest.
From their description, "The cast aluminum material ensures better heat dissipation compared to the grey cast iron of the original PX and Rally 200 cylinders. The raceway is coated, which makes it extremely durable. Overall, the choice of material significantly increases the durability and reliability of the Cylinder." Curious as to what the coating is. Looks really thick to be electroplating of nickel silicon carbide. There is no mention of it in the description. I could be wrong. |
|
UTC
quote
Mole wrote: HI, Has anyone had thoughts on carb jet sizes ? Mo...... It would be negligent not to do so. As it is a replica of the original cylinder, it is not necessary to change the jetting. However, I do not know the current configuration of your engine. Therefore, we cannot take on this task. from SIP |
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4732 Location: London UK |
UTC
quote
Mole wrote: As it is a replica of the original cylinder, it is not necessary to change the jetting. |
Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8897 Location: San Diego, CA |
UTC
quote
markosmarkos wrote: Following with great interest. From their description, "The cast aluminum material ensures better heat dissipation compared to the grey cast iron of the original PX and Rally 200 cylinders. The raceway is coated, which makes it extremely durable. Overall, the choice of material significantly increases the durability and reliability of the Cylinder." Curious as to what the coating is. Looks really thick to be electroplating of nickel silicon carbide. There is no mention of it in the description. I could be wrong. |
UTC
Hooked
Lambretta GPs Lambretta S1s, Vespa Gl, Vespa P200, Serveta 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 102 Location: United States |
|
Hooked
Lambretta GPs Lambretta S1s, Vespa Gl, Vespa P200, Serveta 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 102 Location: United States |
UTC
quote
https://www.scooter-center.com/en/cylinder-original-200-ccm-aluminium-oe66.5mm-vespa-px200-rally200-cosa200-motovespa-dn200-ds200-3333826?number=3333826
Looks like Scooter Center has it too. Looks identical. |
|
UTC
quote
Hi
Fitted it on , was a easy fit. Went for a short run ( 20 miles ). Kept speed between 30 to 40 mph. Checked plug when home and it is running lean. Turn up the Mixture Screw At that speed I know main jet does not come into play. But I will up the main jet. Mo...... |
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4732 Location: London UK |
UTC
quote
Mole wrote: Hi Fitted it on , was a easy fit. Went for a short run ( 20 miles ). Kept speed between 30 to 40 mph. Checked plug when home and it is running lean. Turn up the Mixture Screw At that speed I know main jet does not come into play. But I will up the main jet. Mo...... It's going to need more than a bigger main jet to be safe.
Positive
|
UTC
Hooked
Joined: UTC
Posts: 207 Location: no matter where you go, there you are |
|
|
UTC
quote
Steely Dan wrote: https://www.scooter-center.com/en/cylinder-original-200-ccm-aluminium-oe66.5mm-vespa-px200-rally200-cosa200-motovespa-dn200-ds200-3333826?number=3333826 Looks like Scooter Center has it too. Looks identical. "Description Well-made replacement cylinder, made of aluminum with durable Nicasil coating. Contrary to what the modified layout with 5 overcurrent channels suggests, it is only slightly stronger than an original cylinder. Can be used as a 1:1 replacement for the original Piaggio cylinder. Bore: Ø66.5mm Stroke: 57mm Displacement: 198cc Cylinder Material: Aluminum, Hard Ceramic Coated Piston rings: 2pcs without approval" Here lies the rub, their graph shows that their cast iron, BGM 9020017 cylinder makes more power than the Aluminum 3333826 one. Perhaps oopsclunkthud's observation of the off-centered boost is having more detrimental effects than an off-center ex. port. cast iron vs. aluminum
|
|
UTC
quote
that graph has to be down to a difference in port timing, not the actual potential of the cylinder.
The thing I don't understand on the aluminum cylinder is why they offset the boost port. There is no stud in the way or any other reason for it. If I got the aluminum cylinder I think I'd put an iron liner in it and fix the boost port at the same time. |
|
UTC
quote
Jack221 wrote: Careful. This is when the damage begins. Whats all the jetting? Air filter? It's going to need more than a bigger main jet to be safe. Mo........ |
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4732 Location: London UK |
UTC
quote
Mole wrote: Standard jetting but know going for a 122 main Mo........ When you get to this stage a bigger pilot jet is needed. Until I know the size of the MJ/AC that splutters, its hard to guess a pilot size. But it will be much richer. What sizes you have at home? |
|
UTC
quote
Jack221 wrote: Keep going bigger and bigger on the main jet until its spluttery to ride but you can still ride it. This point is just one or two sizes too big but totally safe at brief and occasional higher throttle. When you get to this stage a bigger pilot jet is needed. Until I know the size of the MJ/AC that splutters, its hard to guess a pilot size. But it will be much richer. What sizes you have at home? Mo... |
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4732 Location: London UK |
UTC
quote
Mole wrote: Just one more 124. Mo... https://www.kmtproducts.co.uk/?cat=DELLORTO-TYPE-JETS&subcat=D31-SI-CARB-IDLE-JETS--Dellorto-Type-9892----NEW-ITEM&page_id=62&menu_id=&category_id=1&sub_category_id=32 https://www.kmtproducts.co.uk/?cat=DELLORTO-TYPE-JETS&subcat=D20-Push-in-Jets--Dellorto-Type-4576-&page_id=62&menu_id=&category_id=1&sub_category_id=12 |
Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5222 Location: Oceanside, CA |
UTC
quote
Finally home and playing with the cylinder. Good thing I was, as my stock P's exhaust stub was a few turns out and the head was leaking.
Only problem so far I've found with the SIP cylinder is the transfers don't match the cylinder. A Road 2 exhaust slides on perfectly though! |
Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5222 Location: Oceanside, CA |
UTC
quote
Sharpie is the cases. Piston matches the cylinder. I know it's still better than stock, but I'm a little underwhelmed.
Positive
|
|
UTC
quote
I'm not sure who this kit is for now… shouldn't they have matched the ports?
I feel like it's a copy of the malossi 210 layout made in SEA for their crazy engines… (have you seen some of the builds they have? Honestly improving Vespa parts all over the place, top stuff) But means everything is modded… |
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4456 Location: Veria, Greece |
UTC
quote
The side ports on the 200 cases were never to be used. They're the same shape as the small blocks and related to the die during casting. You'll need to match the ports and close up a portion of them…
Even if you open up the ports on a stock cylinder, they don't even come close to the cases. This was an O-Tune and marking is how most do a Malossi or what this new kit will need…
Positive
|
|
UTC
quote
SaFiS wrote: The side ports on the 200 cases were never to be used. They're the same shape as the small blocks and related to the die during casting. You'll need to match the ports and close up a portion of them… Even if you open up the ports on a stock cylinder, they don't even come close to the cases. This was an O-Tune and marking is how most do a Malossi or what this new kit will need… |
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4456 Location: Veria, Greece |
|
UTC
quote
SaFiS wrote: That's JB-Weld in the pic… JB works for sure, I've used it most times. Failed once when it delaminated, not enough hardener. |
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4732 Location: London UK |
UTC
quote
MJRally wrote: Finally home and playing with the cylinder. Good thing I was, as my stock P's exhaust stub was a few turns out and the head was leaking. Only problem so far I've found with the SIP cylinder is the transfers don't match the cylinder. A Road 2 exhaust slides on perfectly though! |
Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5222 Location: Oceanside, CA |
UTC
quote
Jack221 wrote: Just ignore this. These cylinders don't use the base cut outs. The transfer is through the piston. |
OP
Ossessionato
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2004 Location: UK (South East) |
UTC
quote
If we wanted to do the porting, wouldn't we just start with a Malossi cylinder? The appeal and price point of the SIP cylinder and piston is surely to replace the stock items like for like, add a 60mm crank and get a useful power boost with better thermals?
Positive
|
|
UTC
quote
swa45 wrote: If we wanted to do the porting, wouldn't we just start with a Malossi cylinder? The appeal and price point of the SIP cylinder and piston is surely to replace the stock items like for like, add a 60mm crank and get a useful power boost with better thermals? |
UTC
Hooked
Some Vespa, some Yamaha, some Suzuki, some Kawasaki, some Honda...
Joined: UTC
Posts: 212 Location: Hamilton, Ontario |
|
Hooked
Some Vespa, some Yamaha, some Suzuki, some Kawasaki, some Honda...
Joined: UTC
Posts: 212 Location: Hamilton, Ontario |
UTC
quote
This chunk is about to fall off and ruin your day. Everything about this cylinder screams 'close but no cigar'.
Positive
|
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8790 Location: Victoria, Australia |
UTC
quote
pullmyfinger wrote: This chunk is about to fall off and ruin your day. Everything about this cylinder screams 'close but no cigar'. |
Modern Vespa is the premier site for modern Vespa and Piaggio scooters. Vespa GTS300, GTS250, GTV, GT200, LX150, LXS, ET4, ET2, MP3, Fuoco, Elettrica and more.