Modern Vespa

This may have been addressed in the past, but I recently had to use my Vespa after a cold month and a half of not riding, and the battery was dead.

Am I the only one who finds the whole process of unscrewing the rubber floor plate to access the battery compartment super inconvenient? It requires having the screwdriver handy, working in the cold (or rain, dark, etc.), as well as being hunched over for an extended period of time. Then you need to make sure the screws don't go missing.

Has anyone ever thought of creating battery terminal extensions that peek out of the forward part of the rubber hatch (and could be covered by easy-to-remove red and black rubber hoods? That way you could easily and effortlessly attach jumper cables and be on your way.

I can already hear you asking, "but how often do we really need to jump-start the scooter?"... which is an excellent question.

The answer is ' just as often as one needs to jump-start a car'... which is not very often, yet there is a quick and easy way to access the car's batter that doesn't require tools and crouching!

Just how old is your car?

Seriously, though, many battery tenders come with pigtails just for that purpose, so, yes, it's been done.

'splain please, Lucy! "Pig Tails"??? A photo would be super helpful.

If you're needing to jump start your scoot often enough to care then you should focus on not needing a jump start.

ie if you're not riding for a long period then use a battery tender or periodically a charger.

I personally installed an SAE plug 'pig tale' in my glovebox that makes this easy. Many people like to leave this hanging under the scoot but i don't because it would get torn off when I'm riding like this

Mine needs a torx. So I had to buy a multitool with the correct torx and keep it in the pet carrier. And then I spent a week wondering what was wrong with my scooter because it would go "clunk" whenever I hit the brakes. It was the multitool bouncing around in the pet carrier.

On the plus side nobody has ever stolen my battery. Are battery bandits really a thing that we need protection from?

It's not about battery theft it's about carbon fibre theft

https://www.motomojogts.com/products/real-carbon-fibre-battery-cover

To answer your question, a "pigtail" is a short piece of wire with ring terminals on on end that are left attached to the battery, and a connector that fits a battery tender on the other end. Actually, they wouldn't be good for jump-starting because the wires are too small and there's about a 10-Amp fuse in the circuit. But they're handy for connecting a battery charger. I'll leave the question of how to route the pigtail out of the battery compartment to another topic.

All excellent and informative responses. But:

a) I leave my scoot out on the street, do I don't see a battery tender in my future.
b) as someone pointed out, the pigtail wires are too thin for a jump, even if there wasn't a fuse in the line.

which brings us to:

c) is there a way to safely run two heavy gauge wires from the battery up into the glove box so that, when necessary, I could simply uncover the ends there and take a quick jump from another vehicle?

Mind you, I need a jump once every year or two. And then often several times in a week until I either ride enough to really charge my battery... or replace the battery which is at the end of its life.

Yes. Well, theoretically. I haven't seen it done with heavy gauge wires, but I've certainly routed wires from the battery up to the glove box before. The open question is: how big of a wire do you need? And that's a question I can't answer, being a lowly software engineer with only a passing knowledge of electrical things.

You'll also need some way to connect the wire to a source -- something like this, I should think:

https://www.amazon.com/OrionMotorTech-Battery-Connect-Disconnect-Recovery/dp/B074J5DS33/

I would think that wires of the same gauge as the battery wires should work. Those wires carry the starting current from the battery to the starter; another two or three feet to the glovebox won't make any difference.

Another idea. How about making or modifying the battery cover so it can quickly and easily be removed? Maybe strong magnets holding it in place. Or pins or latches of some kind?

One more thought. Would a lithium battery hold a charge better through a few weeks of inactivity?

As long as you have good clean ground to attach the negative jumper cable to, you would only need to run one positive cable up. I can understand while this is frustrating, many machines are worse. The newer Honda CB300r has the battery under the gas tank.

I bought sae connectors with 12# wire
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09XM5NW7R/

I can use that for the tender or with a cord that plugs into a power point in a car for a jump start. Let the car battery charge the scooter battery for a couple of minutes before starting the bike.
https://www.amazon.com/Extractme-Cigarette-Lighter-Extension-Charging/dp/B08KZXXZ5M/

That seems a bit overdone to me.

The current during a jump start is high but the time is short. You do not need cables and connectors that can handle 50A continuously.

I have jump start cables in the car, meant for cars. They are flexible cables and have a diameter of 5 - 6mm insulation included.

A week ago or so I used them to jump start the car of a colleague who found the battery of his car completely empty when he wanted to go home. Worked fine, no problem.

Can be done but make sure the easy way of opening is not visible from outside. With the scooter always parked along the street it could meet people with less good intentions.

Agreed -- just showing an example of an external connector that might be in the general vicinity of what he's trying to accomplish.

You don't need the cables to be big enough to run the starter, just big enough to transfer some electrons & top off the charge on the scooter battery.
Power points are generally current limited & fused

10awg or 2.5mm^2 is fine - use Anderson pole connectors (the 45A inserts are fine) and you're good for jump-starting. Lead the wires up and into the glovebox.

https://powerwerx.com/anderson-power-powerpole-sb-connectors#?specs=306

If I'm in a position to need a jump start, and I'm able to get a jump start, having to remove four screws is the easy part of my day.

Odds are, I won't need another jump start for a very long time, so the amount of time and effort I would need to mod my bike to be more 'jumpstart-friendly' is more time and effort than I would ever actually save jump starting it more easily in the future...

TLDR: Spend half an hour modding it, to save 20 seconds every once a decade.
Bike must live 90 years to break even.

Weirdly enough, I made a video showing how much you have to take apart to get to the battery to install a pig tail on that motorcycle:

I get that everyone has their hassle threshold, and mine is low. Very low. To the point that if it is cold or wet, or I'm running even a tiny bit behind schedule, the jump is going to wait for another day. And THAT is the antithesis of why I have a scoot. I have it for the convenience of doing quick runs to the store... popping into the center of Jerusalem on short notice when I know parking is going to be a bitch... running a quick errand when I don't want to give up the sweet parking spot I have for one of our cars...

If I wanted/needed to take the scooter and have to walk away from it and take the car even once, it has failed in its raison d'etre.

This doesn't have to make sense to anyone else. That's why I stated at the outset:

lol, got it, the 28 seconds to remove four screws means the entire vehicle "has failed in its raison d'etre"... (To say nothing of the owner taking responsibility for failing his vehicle )

Alright, so the criteria is: Speed for the sake of speed, and it "doesn't have to make sense to anyone" Perfect, my cup of tea.

Suggestion 1: Why are you using four screws to keep your battery cover in place? It only needs one screw to do the job. Throw the other three out.

Congratulations, you've just shaved off 21 of the 28 seconds it'll take the next time you need to access your battery. You're welcome.

Suggestion 2: Instead of using jumper cables and needing to get a second vehicle involved like we're still living in 1974, why don't you get a tiny portable booster pack?

Congratulations, you've just shaved off all of the time you were wasting to get a second vehicle, drive it into position, pop the hood, take our the jumper cables handed down to you by your grandfather, and connecting them to the running vehicle.

You're welcome. I really really think that this needs repeating...

Adri, I don't know you, but everyone has their own idea of what they want/need out of their ride. My questions don't have to make sense to you. They make sense to me.

My criteria are convenience and easy access to the battery. You clearly have different criteria. And that's fine. But please don't try to convince me that my criteria are not valid. It isn't 28 seconds if one is 62 years old with back and knee limitations from service related injuries. And laughing at someone ("lol") while responding to them is never a good way to make them feel good. Yes. Exactly. The screws keep a good seal on the compartment cover. I wouldn't want to risk water leakage. And even one screw will require getting out a tool and crouching in potentially inclement weather. Add to that the fact that the Vespa battery doesn't have protruding terminals like a car battery. SO cables often are difficult to make contact with.
I think I covered this above. it's time and convenience for me. Not you. This still requires either accessing the battery or having leads go to an area such as the glove box that can be instantly accessed without tools. I don't know how long the charge lasts on the tiny portable booster packs, but my guess is that after a year of sitting in my pet carrier in freezing and boiling temps, it would be just as likely to be dead as my battery. I almost always park next to my car in our parking lot, so getting a jump is not the issue here. Its accessing the battery.

Everyone but one person on this thread was kind, helpful and informative. They tried to answer my questions as best as possible without belittling me for asking questions that don't make sense to them.

This is a helpful, friendly community.

Most of the time.

Yeah, Adri just remember that not everyone is as adept as you.

Be gentle eh ?

Meanwhile half the people in here tell me I'm a noob!

Yes but manners cost nothing.

Tell me more about manners

FWIW I bought my mother the booster pack, she is also very old, and leaves it in her car, 24/7, from +30 C summers to -30 C winters in Toronto, Canada.

It's a lithium battery, so when she needs it, she just wipes off the pound of dust that it's gathered since the last time she touched it, and it fires her car right up.

As an Italian, I can't think of a better kindness, but to recommend the exact same thing I've chosen for my darling mama.

What's your suggestion big guy?

Trepp - think outside the box - just install a LiFePO4 motorcycle battery. They will hold their charge for years, and even when 90% depleted can give full current output at 13V.

I'll need to find out if they have them here. I honestly hadn't heard of them… and googling them has me very interested. Will they fit in the battery compartment of a GTS?
Thanks for the tip.

FWIW, I fully support the idea of pursuing a solution that may or may not be rational or pragmatic or prudent, if that's what piques your interest at the moment.

I spend the bulk of my day pursuing such things.

At least here, there are loads of different LFP batteries all fitting a YTX12-BS or YTX14-BS. A 6Ah one is quite adequate, and should be roughly the same price as a Yuasa AGM.

I have a Shorai battery in my 2009 GTS250. It is MUCH smaller and lighter than the OEM battery. The battery came with a bunch of foam pad shapes to help secure it into the battery compartment. They work, but when I have more time, I will find a larger piece of foam block and cut a more permanent blocker.

-Shorai LFX™ batteries can be purchased at over 2,500 dealers and also online at www.shoraipower.com.

You should check out SteelBytes' thread from last month. Worthwhile read for someone looking to put their first lithium in a Vespa:
Lithium battery for GTS

Thank you. Interesting read.

Rookie question: A reoccurring theme on that thread is that one shouldn't try to charge a lithium battery at low temps. But if you ride in cold weather isn't the alternator doing just that?

Sort of. Generally speaking, the battery will already be at full charge (or very nearly) so it's not really doing any significant charging, except to top off whatever you used to start the scooter. Which is almost nothing, in the grand scheme of things.

I don't know what brands of batteries those guys are using. I use my Earth-X lithium throughout the winter, the manufacturer says this about charging in the winter: See more: https://earthxbatteries.com/earthx-lifepo4-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-cold-temperature-operation/

Now for full disclosure: Earth-X recommends only use one of a very small handful of lithium battery chargers for use with their lithium batteries. I use one of their recommended chargers. I have no freakin' idea if that makes any difference to be completely honest.

I've also heard that some lithium BMS (battery management systems) can detect temperature and communicate with the chargers that the battery should be charged at a lower rate than it would at normal temperature until it warms up. I don't know if this is why Earth-X only recommends specific batteries or if my battery even does this.

I think you can overthink this all day, and if that's your style, just put an email into Earth-X, they're been very responsive when I needed them in the past.