Modern Vespa

now ya talking

Jet yourself down to Jaycar for some peltiers. Let us know how you get on.

Apparently there are a few here who are unhappy with the life span of the drive belt. My suggestion to Vespa would be to use the same type of belts that Harley uses. I owned a '95 Softail Custom and traded it in for a 2009 Electraglide Ultra that I recently sold and never changed the drive belts on either - because neither ever needed it.

If the automotive industry can get timing belts to last 60-100k miles then it appears that Vespa just isn't looking hard enough for a solution!

on a CVT the belt has to slide up and down the v-pulleys (variator) - gotta be harder on it. And it's teeth aren't used as teeth to grip so they won't help. And the cvt is enclosed in the case so it gets hot in there

Special feature: that it creates space for itself in my garage or collapses wafer thin.
My storage is likely my greatest limiter.

I have a POS 2008 Dodge Caliber with a CVT. The tranny is sealed and has no scheduled maintenance. I am at 208,000 miles on that belt.

Piaggio should be able to land somewhere in the middle. Wouldn't you think?

Chris from CLE

2 seconds of googling https://www.vehiclehistory.com/articles/dodge-caliber-transmission-problems-poorly-designed-cvt-likely-to-fail-before-100000-miles

YMMV (pun intended)

Just repeat the fact that you have Chrysler Calibre with a CVT and you havn't set light to it yet ?

What does it weigh?

Just did another quick Google on the dodge cvt and it seems it might be a wet cvt not dry like our Vespas. Wonder what that does for the life and heat management ...

The car CVT belt is made of mostly metal rather than the Kevlar scooter version.

Maybe not but you do for cruise control.

I second that emotion!

From an engineering standpoint, the belt being on a variator won't make any difference because when one end gets smaller in diameter the other gets larger. As for a closed compartment, I don't imagine it would get any hotter than attached to the end of a high-revving 4-cylinder motor.

Plus there are a lot of various belts with "teeth" that don't use them as teeth, per se. In many cases, teeth in a belt simply allow it to loop around smaller diameter pulleys. You would think that the strength of the belt would be compromised by having teeth but the reality is a bit different. As it turns out, it's the sloped SIDES of a belt that make contact with the groove in a pulley so the contact area between the two remains high even on a toothed belt on a smaller pulley.

Regardless, when you are only cracking out around 11hp or so, I feel Vespa could have made a better materials choice. Alas, c'est la vie!

100k miles? Hey, I'd take those numbers for a Vespa CVT belt. I'd even accept half of that and still be happy!

Yes, 100% true. Hermetically sealed in some kind of oily substance.

Typical Chrysler. Drivetrain seems to run forever. Everything bolted on to that seems to leave by one of the three OFFS - break, rust, or fall. Less and less each day, see above. I always hesitate before filling with gas - I do not want it to go to the junkyard with a full tank.

Chris from CLE

Kick starter for backup, and cruise control would do it for me.

Don't the teeth help to dissipate heat?

Generally speaking, the discipline of science has the exclusive luxury of fantasizing about the behavior of objects in frictionless environments. In the field of engineering, however, we know that frictionless environments are mostly a figment of scientists imaginations, and we have to actually account for those effects.

The belt in a CVT takes a substantial amount of abuse because of its movement up and down the sides of the pulley. The fact that the pulleys change diameter in the process does not eliminate that.

Heat also has a huge impact on belt life, as anyone who has snapped a belt on Cannonball will tell you.

I might be tempted (not persuaded) by at least 50% larger fuel tank. Preferably double the size. Standard OBD2 connector, so I could put old smartphone on the handlebars and make my own dashboard using OBD2 app like Torque. Cruise control would be nice. Heated grips. Maybe larger wheels. Larger underseat storage. Unlike many I'd be happy with smaller displacement than the current 300 (280) cc. Cooled underseat storage, at least part of it, sounds intriguing.

obd2 connector is standard on HPE and newer and works with generic obd2 devices and apps. (or course I think using the standard/optional bluetooth in a vespa with my app is better

New feature. Hmm how about simplicity over complication.

Somebody has to do it. I should have it running in no time.

get a bicycle with no gears

Hey you idiots. You know how this works by now surely. Piaggio have there top men(the women quit) monitoring this forum and do the opposite of what we ask.

or maybe they went "Hey ChatGPT, how can we entice more buyers?" and the answer was "Sell a varsity jacket with a dragon on it"

I want a classy looking bike that makes a hot drink. Cappuccino machine in the legshield would be awesome. But I would settle for a built in kettle thingy.
Some hot noodles and cup of hot brown wherever you may ride!!

Some device that bolts to the exhaust?

Maybe a big capacitor and electric kettle kinda thing. Or use the radiator fluid or the exhaust. In fact, a toasted sandwich should also be possible.


Scooter ride followed by toasted sandwich and cup of hot brown. I'd be in heaven.

1. A more stable center stand.
2. A "don't even think of f'ing with this bike" alarm!

That might do it for me.

1. The existing center stand is quite stable, up to (but not including) malicious intent.
2. Vehicle alarms create noise pollution and lower property values. But hey, at least they have statistically zero impact on vehicle theft, so there's that.

I don't think that can be true.
I am soooo tempted to pay someone to steal the neighbours car, whose alarm repeatedly sounds around midnight.

Statistically speaking, it's in the noise.

[rimshot]

Although an alarm may or may not receive theft, my insurance company does give a reduction in the premium of you have one.

SOMEONE IS PAYING MY NEIGHBOUR TO WAKE ME UP?

I was thinking of standard OBD2 connector. Which they don't have. You can buy adapters for the 3 or 4 pin connector that they have. Why not just put the standard connector there? Then you get access to all 9 connected pins. I think it's the good old desire for control. "It's our product. We will not allow buyers to use it in a way that we have not thought of and cannot monetize."

But for me the main issue is the small fuel tank. Or rather the short range that the small fuel tank causes. I'd be just as happy with twice the mpg as twice the size of the tank. Not everyone lives close to a fuel station, or has the desire to fill up twice a week.

I suggest you read some of the links on https://www.google.com/search?q=ISO+19689%3A2016

The 6 pin red connector on *current* vespas is a standard connector for obd2. Being different to cars doesn't make it non-standard - euro standards are different for cars vs bikes. It includes pins for canbus, kline and 12v/grnd. (J1850 is not used on any of the vespas).

This is why the cables that connect the red 6 pin to the big old skool connector that you desire are simply straight bits of wire with no electronics and are very cheap. It's like a 9pin vs 25pin RS232

It's also why many of us do use standard odb2 code readers with our vespas. Even Robot has a video on using a generic reader with a vespa.

Exactly the post I was considering after reading the suggestion.

Thank you, Jess.

Bill

Is the reason that a Harley Davidson drive belt will last forever is because it runs in free air which is really effective for cooling it's surfaces rather than it being run fully enclosed where heat builds up ?

As you say a scooter drive belt is constantly being asked to change its shape and loading which is going to take its toll.

This must be some older model then.