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Bill Dog wrote:
Is the reason that a Harley Davidson drive belt will last forever is because it runs in free air which is really effective for cooling it's surfaces rather than it being run fully enclosed where heat builds up ?

As you say a scooter drive belt is constantly being asked to change its shape and loading which is going to take its toll.
Quoting would help here, in the middle of a busy conversation. I know you know this, Bill, and yet you obstinately refuse. I also know that you know that this annoys me, which is likely why you do it.

So tell me why I shouldn't have the moderators remove your posts?
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jess wrote:
Generally speaking, the discipline of science has the exclusive luxury of fantasizing about the behavior of objects in frictionless environments. In the field of engineering, however, we know that frictionless environments are mostly a figment of scientists imaginations, and we have to actually account for those effects.

The belt in a CVT takes a substantial amount of abuse because of its movement up and down the sides of the pulley. The fact that the pulleys change diameter in the process does not eliminate that.

Heat also has a huge impact on belt life, as anyone who has snapped a belt on Cannonball will tell you.
Not on a Cannonball, but this was a fun day. It was pretty hot, IIRC.
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Also, consider that the Harley belt uses the whole width of the belt to transfer the power, with no sliding component. A Vespa belt uses only the narrow edges that contact the pulleys, and the belt slides up and down the pulleys.
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GTdespatchcourier wrote:
Maybe a big capacitor and electric kettle kinda thing. Or use the radiator fluid or the exhaust. In fact, a toasted sandwich should also be possible.


Scooter ride followed by toasted sandwich and cup of hot brown. I'd be in heaven.
There is a cookbook for the Austin Healey on making food that lays on the engine. Maybe a compartment could be built into the Vespa, arrive at destination and toasted sandwich done!
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BajaRob wrote:
Maybe a compartment could be built into the Vespa, arrive at destination and toasted sandwich done!
I think they call that the underseat compartment, colloquially known as the Pet Carrier.

Problem solved.
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UTC quote
This thread gets funner by the post.
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T.S.Zarathusra wrote:
This must be some older model then.
Yes that's old. On the GTS for example they stopped using that plug 5 years ago when the HPE was released.
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another thought on scooter belts versus other belts ...

scooter belts run at the rpm of the engine. ie up to 9000 rpm on a gts.

drive belts on a motorcycle run at the rpm of the rear wheel - pretty sure that's a lot less than 9000

I bet that's gotta be relevant

(no idea in a car with a cvt)
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SteelBytes wrote:
another thought on scooter belts versus other belts ...

scooter belts run at the rpm of the engine. ie up to 9000 rpm on a gts.

drive belts on a motorcycle run at the rpm of the rear wheel - pretty sure that's a lot less than 9000

I bet that's gotta be relevant

(no idea in a car with a cvt)
Good point!
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jess wrote:
1. The existing center stand is quite stable, up to (but not including) malicious intent.
2. Vehicle alarms create noise pollution and lower property values. But hey, at least they have statistically zero impact on vehicle theft, so there's that.
I disagree.
1. The existing center stand does not provide a wide enough base to be secure when parking on a street with an incline, especially coupled with a steet with a high camber. (Sure, nothing helps when people are being malicious or careless.)

2. Doesn't have to be a noisy alarm. But in places like where I live in which car alarms going off are rare, it would work. Perhaps a built-in alarm that flashes the lights and sends you a notification if someone tries to move the bike? I know there are third party ones out there that do that. I just though it would nice if that were a built-in option.
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jess wrote:
2. Vehicle alarms create noise pollution and lower property values. But hey, at least they have statistically zero impact on vehicle theft, so there's that.
Insurance companies do not appear to share your sentiments.
My car has a factory supplied OEM theft deterrent, aka alarm, built in and my insurance does give me a decent discount for that.

See for example: https://www.insurancepanda.com/22388/car-alarm-insurance-discount

I do park my alarmed car close to my house. Am I bringing down the whole neighborhood? How often do you hear alarms around you? This isn't the eighties anymore and alarms aren't constantly being triggered by non alarming events.
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How about a very discreet (small) built-in dual channel camera system? Just supply your own SD card. Saves you from ugly, obtrusive, expensive add-on systems. Couple it with a motioin trigger when the bike is parked, and it could help deter theft or vandalism. And if it doesn't deter the vandalism, at least you'll have their smiling faces to give to the police. Basically, a better implementation of devices that are available from third-party vendors.
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giallo wrote:
I do park my alarmed car close to my house. Am I bringing down the whole neighborhood?
Yes.
giallo wrote:
How often do you hear alarms around you? This isn't the eighties anymore and alarms aren't constantly being triggered by non alarming events.
Yeah, they're still going off. Not as much as in the eighties, but if you think the plague of idiots with idiotic car alarms ended in the eighties, you are sadly mistaken.

When an alarm goes off down the street, do you run down the street, crowbar in hand, ready to confront the thief? No?

Then the alarms are pointless.
⚠️ Last edited by jess on UTC; edited 1 time
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BajaRob wrote:
There is a cookbook for the Austin Healey on making food that lays on the engine. Maybe a compartment could be built into the Vespa, arrive at destination and toasted sandwich done!
A la WWII cooking on the engines of military vehicles?
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UTC quote
Bill Dog wrote:
Is the reason that a Harley Davidson drive belt will last forever is because it runs in free air which is really effective for cooling it's surfaces rather than it being run fully enclosed where heat builds up ?

As you say a scooter drive belt is constantly being asked to change its shape and loading which is going to take its toll.
OK, I'll be the first to admit that mentioning Harley belts wasn't a good comparison. Too much difference between a belt final and a variator to make it a valid point. I'll try to refine my examples in the future because I didn't do a good job on this one.

That being admitted, all belts attached to a motor that runs at variable speeds will be under variable loading. That is not unique to variator belts.

I personally don't feel it's the "constantly changing shape" that is the issue - while one end gets larger the other gets smaller which evens it out. As others have also mentioned, I think it's more a matter of the lateral compression a variator belt is under from being squeezed by the sides of each pulley. I can certainly see that as a big factor in wear and tear.

Regardless, all of this really doesn't matter. The Dodge CVT mentioned in earlier posts is still considered a failure because it goes belly-up at roughly 100k miles - inside a small, sealed transmission attached directly to a hot internal combustion engine with higher power requirements and zero service. I'll take a half (or even a quarter) of that and be happy.

Just a few moments of Google-fu reveals that Honda makes a DCT no-shift tranny for their power toys and the only recommended maintenance is to change the clutch oil filter at the same intervals you would change the motor oil (even though it doesn't have a clutch lever). If Honda can do it, so can Vespa.
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I'd suggest that it's unfair to say that it's exclusively a Vespa problem when pretty much all scooters use a CVT with a belt.

With normal operation such as riding around town all day they are fine but string them out on the highway in hot conditions for hours they will probably fail before the service interval.

I'd suggest that the technology isn't there to make a belt that works in all conditions all the time.
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jess wrote:
Yes.



Yeah, they're still going off. Not as much as in the eighties, but if you think the plague of idiots with idiotic car alarms ended in the eighties, you are sadly mistaken.

When an alarm goes off down the street, do you run down the street, crowbar in hand, ready to confront the thief? No?

Then the alarms are pointless.
First have to say that I fully agree. That's why I like the way at least many new European cars do this nowadays. Well, mine isn't excatly new anymore, but I think it works similarly:

I have a red led clearly visible at the dashboard. It starts to blink when the car is locked. There is also a sticker about this in the windshield. This is, hopefully, signalling to a potential thief that my car has both a quite complicated anti-theft system + wireless connection (GSM, the car has a SIM card) to my phone.

No alarm horns in the car.

Of course, this does not prevent someone smashing in a window in a search of valuables. I don't keep anything valuable in the car, so would loose only a window. And yes, I would get the alarm to my phone. Probably too late to prevent the immediate damage, but at least I'd know that the car must be checked.
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UTC quote
So, reading through this thread I see less modern electronics, looks like a classic Vespa, carries a spare tire ...

My 4T Stella must be worth a small fortune.
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UTC quote
Carburetor, 13 inch wheels, 500cc engine
Motorcycle forks, 6spd shifty, 8k otd.
Done.
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An additional curry hook.
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What I want is really simple and should at least be available in the aftermarket, is a lock on the rear brake lever so I can use it as a parking brake. Every snowmobile and some atvs have this simple system which would be very handy and safer for anyone who uses a kick stand or stops on a slope.
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Paint colors lol
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Given the rise of things being done by machines and not their owners,
how about self-paying payments?

Razz emoticon
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UTC quote
Nitro200 wrote:
Carburetor, 13 inch wheels, 500cc engine
Motorcycle forks, 6spd shifty, 8k otd.
Done.
Almost the Manual shift Honda NC700X I bought in 2013.

Yes, bigger wheels and engine, but it matches up on the rest.

And it's anemic 700cc engine was a lot like a 500cc.

Except the carburetor part.

No mainstream manufacturer will ever again have a carburetor on an ICE.

Never liked it much.

Traded it for an Xmax.

Much better for me.

Bill
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Sorry don't know what ICE is
Carburetor is just traditional there's only me and the Carburetor and I'm in control no computers and the bigwigs upstairs deciding how my bike should work.
I want to tinker inside and outside of my bike and get to know it's qwerks the mechanical way and be able to afford it.
Glad I got that out ok so what the subject ?

[/b][/url]
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Internal Combustion Engine.
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Nitro200 wrote:
Sorry don't know what ICE is
Internal Combustion Engine. Both Carburettor and Fuel injection. Both conventional pistons and rotary.

ie not electric or steam or unicorns
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Unicorns are real ?
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SteelBytes wrote:
Internal Combustion Engine. Both Carburettor and Fuel injection. Both conventional pistons and rotary.

ie not electric or steam or unicorns
Or external.
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UTC quote
Bill Dog wrote:
Unicorns are real ?
Didn't you know? 🤔
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It's been lie after lie after lie.
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Bill Dog wrote:
It's been lie after lie after lie.
ROFL emoticon
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UTC quote
Bill Dog wrote:
Unicorns are real ?
I've heard that you put fairy dust in the tank to feed the little unicorn and then rainbows come out the exhaust
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My scooter's faster - it has two unicorns.
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Mike Holland wrote:
My scooter's faster - it has two unicorns.
Do you know if malossi makes lighter horseshoe that suit?
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UTC quote
Nitro200 wrote:
Sorry don't know what ICE is
Carburetor is just traditional there's only me and the Carburetor and I'm in control no computers and the bigwigs upstairs deciding how my bike should work.
I want to tinker inside and outside of my bike and get to know it's qwerks the mechanical way and be able to afford it.
Glad I got that out ok so what the subject ?

[/b][/url]
Good old carburetors. When you were constantly removing the spark plug to see if the bike was running rich or lean. Losing half the power when gaining few feet in altitude, or it rained. Diassembling and rebuilding them every time they stood for few months. Good times.
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UTC quote
Joking around aside, I really can't think of any new features that would move me off of my 'old' 2020 Vespa GTS300.

In fact, almost all new 'features' would tend to discourage me from a newer GTS, especially added features of the tech variety.

The bike is already as technically advanced as I would ever want it.
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UTC quote
I do love the 2023 GTS300 Super Tec as well. It has power, good ride, and so fun to ride. I added the top case for additional storage and look forward to every chance I get to take it out. You do seem to observe the landscape and environment more when riding a Vespa over being in a car.
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UTC quote
Jeffsvisor wrote:
....You do seem to observe the landscape and environment more when riding a Vespa over being in a car.
One usually has more time to admire the passing scenery as viewed from Vespa...but not always.
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