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@lisa_b avatar
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2020 Primavera 150
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Location: Fullerton, CA
 
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@lisa_b avatar
2020 Primavera 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1
Location: Fullerton, CA
UTC quote
Hi! I'm brand new here and wondering if I could get some suggestions….

I have a 2020 primavera 150 and am looking for suggestions on performance upgrades. I generally ride the surface streets around town. Taking off from stop lights is super quick 0-50ish), but the streets around me average 50 mph and people go a lot faster. I'm worried about the wear from going almost full throttle ALL the time and would like to try add some room to get out of the way of any cars coming at me.

I've added the variator kit. Eventually I want to do the 183 cylinder kit, but that needs to wait a while. Does anyone have any suggestions? I was looking at the Malossi Secondary Gear/ Overdrive. Is that worth it?

Thanks!
@znomit avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190 Friday afternoon special, Primavera, some pushbikes
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Location: Hermit Kingdom
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@znomit avatar
LX190 Friday afternoon special, Primavera, some pushbikes
Joined: UTC
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Location: Hermit Kingdom
UTC quote
The upgrade kit will boost power so you'll get to 60 faster but won't add a lot of top speed. A small flyscreen helps a little too.
If you need to go 60 a lot of the time then a 300 is the answer. Might work out cheaper than all those upgrades too.

Welcome to MV
@jakem avatar
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Vespa Sprint Sport S 125cc
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Location: Brighton, England
 
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@jakem avatar
Vespa Sprint Sport S 125cc
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Location: Brighton, England
UTC quote
I've got a 125cc version of your engine. As long as they're serviced at the correct intervals, there's no worry about going full throttle with the engines. Most small displacement engines spend the majority of their life at high revs, and there's never really any talk on here about engine problems.

Some of the GTS 300's have a reputation for drinking oil, but the small capacity engines seem bulletproof.

Which variator did you add? Did you see a difference in top speed, or acceleration, or both?

The malossi overdrive kit is made to compliment their cylinder kit. I wouldn't go for it on its own. If the gearing is too long, you'll struggle and could potentially lose speed without the power it requires.
@rmwill avatar
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Hooked
Too Many Bikes!
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Location: Huntington Woods, MI
 
Hooked
@rmwill avatar
Too Many Bikes!
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Posts: 105
Location: Huntington Woods, MI
UTC quote
How much faster? Even a 300 HPE has limited headroom in fast traffic in most of the US since speed enforcement has disappeared in post Covid era. In Mad Max like traffic, I ride a sport bike to feel safer. Upgrades to the 150 are marginal at best. My 150 and 300 are mainly used around town.
@greasy125 avatar
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Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Posts: 14766
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
UTC quote
the 190 kit will give you better take off and midrange, but not much more top speed. although you'll get there quickly.

with a stock cylinder the upgear isn't really worth it and will actually slow the acceleration down, but you'll gain some top speed, eventually, when you get there. without the kit you don't have enough power to take advantage of the longer legs of the gears.
@the_hornets_lisc avatar
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Vespa Primavera 150 "Redemption"
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Location: Long Island, New York
 
Hooked
@the_hornets_lisc avatar
Vespa Primavera 150 "Redemption"
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Posts: 393
Location: Long Island, New York
UTC quote
As stated, the 300 is the best upgrade if you want more top end. I have a mostly stock Primavera 150 as well. It tops out at 67mph, indicated by GPS, full throttle. It cruises at 60 or so with no problems. That is enough for me, but not everyone. Its my experience that the upgrades only reduce reliability and give no more top end, but get you there faster. Attached is a photo showing my non performance upgrades. BTW removing the emissions was not to improve performance and it didnt. I had to vent the Gas Cap however. Wishing you the best.
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Addicted
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What size is your rear tire? Will the same size fit in front?
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2020 piaggio liberty 150
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Posts: 710
Location: Reno Nevada
 
Addicted
2020 piaggio liberty 150
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Posts: 710
Location: Reno Nevada
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I have a 2020 Piaggio Liberty and from what I hear on the interwebs my bike and yours share an engine. Although when it comes to performance upgrades they do not act the same?

The differences are gearing as the Liberty has a slightly larger diameter rear tire and the Liberty also has a swingarm/muffler mount that is eliminated on the Vespa 150's. But there must be something else for the CDI box to be compatible with USA Vespa's and not USA Liberty's.

What I have recently done to mine is a Malossi performance Variator, an Akrapovic aftermarket exhaust, and a Malossi performance lambda emulator.

I had planned to do a big bore kit as well. When I was shopping for parts I noticed that about a year ago the different places that sold the big bore kit insisted it be run with a force master CDI box...then more recently it was determined that "it runs well enough with just the emulator".

Motovista got on here and explained to me that the big bore kit and force master CDI box with the emulator worked well on the European 125's but that combination of parts was not working well on the U.S. version of the 150 motors. The people at a few different dealerships could not get the combination of big bore-CDI box and emulator to work very well on the Liberty and recommended just the big bore and the emulator.

This got me to thinking and I decided to try the combination of performance variator-pipe-lambda emulator stock air filter because where I live (Reno Nevada high desert always windy and dusty) just to see how it works.

I cannot reply as to longevity or lesser reliability as I have just completed this and only have a few rides on it but the seat of the pants impression is what has been described here. It is faster off the line as well as roll on speed is quicker with a slightly higher top speed which is especially notable on the frequent up-hills in the Reno area.

The lambda emulator is a piggy back plug in. It plugs in to where the stock O2 sensor from the exhaust plugs in and then the O2 sensor plugs into the emulator.

This somehow enhances the signals to the stock CDI box and I think it slightly changes the parameters into and out of the CDI. I was told that unplugging the battery for a couple days would cause the bike to have to re-learn parameters once hooked up again so I left the battery off for a couple days to make sure.

So far it runs great. No problems with general running it does just like it did before and there is a performance increase. I am anxiously awaiting more information on getting the big bore kit sorted with the aftermarket CDI box. I may yet try the big bore kit with just the emulator if nothing improves on the CDI for the American market scooters just to see.

The whole thing is a re-learning of an old lesson with quite a few reps...when you modify something from stock to make it better sometimes it doesn't, and sometimes it has unintended consequences you did not plan on. I think it quite telling that a year or two ago you had to buy the CDI with the big bore kit and now they tell you not to run the CDI with the big bore kit at all. The worst part is hearing the "it runs well enough without the CDI and just the emulator".

I don't want it to run "well enough" I want it to run really good! So far with the modifications I have made my Liberty does run really good.

https://scooterpartsco.com/liberty-150-iget-c-108_3549/malossi-lambda-emulator-for-vespa-piaggio-iget-150-p-36440.html

Does a big bore kit require a CDI on Iget 150 engine?

From Motovista in linked thread..."The issue that might arise from not using something akin to the Forcemaster is that the ECU in Piaggio scooters takes in information from the O2 sniffer up to 6000 rpms. And after that, it only does what it's programed to do. So if you're running the bike flat out for miles, you might be running it too lean for too long. I would definitely check the spark plug after a long run like that, and see if the bike is running lean, or okay."

So by running my Liberty with just the lambda plug in I can check to see what the spark plug looks like after a few thousand miles and just unplug it if it looks like for my application it is too lean at high rpm's/full speed runs. I am definitely hoping for more information on this subject.

If the combination of big bore kit-CDI box-lambda emulator works on the Vespa Sprint's and Primavera's I want what they have on my Liberty.
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2020 piaggio liberty 150
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Posts: 710
Location: Reno Nevada
 
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2020 piaggio liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 710
Location: Reno Nevada
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Side note on my Liberty I used an Akrapovic exhaust that was meant for the Vespa Sprint and Primavera.

I got this pipe used on a theft recovery bike from a tow yard. What someone had done on the used bike I bought was they bolted the akrapovic bracket on top of the swingarm/muffler mount on the Liberty.

I did not like that setup so I further modified the already somewhat modified swingarm/muffler mount to improve it.

I honestly think that the swingarm could be eliminated on the Liberty since a swingarm is not used at all on the Vespa?

This is the theft recovery bike that came equipped with the akrapovic.
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@garthhh avatar
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2020 Liberty 150, 2020 MP3-500
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Posts: 562
Location: Reno
 
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@garthhh avatar
2020 Liberty 150, 2020 MP3-500
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Posts: 562
Location: Reno
UTC quote
No matter what you are driving, or how fast you are going, there will be some arsehole rage passing you.

Performance upgrades reduce the reliability & lifespan.

Being seen & not putting yourself in dangerous positions is far more effective
I worry more about being seen than trying to keep up with the fastest traffic.

Own your place on the road, if you leave room for people to cut you off they will. Ride on the left of the right lane & right side of the left lane.
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2020 piaggio liberty 150
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Posts: 710
Location: Reno Nevada
 
Addicted
2020 piaggio liberty 150
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Posts: 710
Location: Reno Nevada
UTC quote
I agree with your post but I still want to find out anyway. And there are caveats? or nuances to the whole thing.

My Dad and Uncle used to build hot VW engines together back in the day. When you get a VW air cooled engine pushing over 100 HP when it was designed for 40 it's not going to last very long.

There are things you can do to make it last better but no matter what it won't get 100,000 miles before being worn out. But it will be perfectly reliable, start every time, run fine every time while it lasts. The stock air cooled engine might last the 100,000 miles driven and maintained carefully but I honestly don't think the stock version any more reliable for daily driving while it lives its lifespan.

In this example it made a 60's VW bug able to be driven on the freeways in a major urban area...it enabled the car to keep up with modern traffic flow in the modern stock car race of daily urban rush hour. As you point out it would have been possible with a stock car but it was a lot more fun and just seemed to work better with the modified car.

I think a similar analogy with the air cooled Vespa and Liberty is a fair expectation. I don't think it will last as long but I am hoping to find out that it is just as reliable for it's lifespan once it is dialed in especially with careful maintenance and observation. Also for me I have a spare engine from a salvage bike so I want to find out if it is reliable or not, I want to test it as a research project even if it's only a seat of the pants experiment. My bike already has an increased fun factor no doubt!

The point of my posts is to try to communicate some of the pitfalls and successes for those of us that despite having learned the lesson to just leave it stock still insist on modifying from stock because we just can't help ourselves.

I am hoping to get it dialed in and report what I did to get it to work good as well as reporting on how it lasts or any issues or headaches. I am pretty sure I am going to learn something anyway and I am going to do it for the knowledge gained if nothing else with the hopes that some previous experience will let me know if I screwed it up before it's too late.

Not to completely hijack the thread but the whole thing of the CDI box works with Euro Vespa and Liberty 125's and the USA Vespa's but not the USA Liberty 150's is a mystery I just have to find the answer to. Whatever the guys did in Motovista's post to get it to work on Vespa but not Liberty when supposedly the engines are the same got me wanting to see for myself and dive a little deeper.
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Addicted
2020 piaggio liberty 150
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Posts: 710
Location: Reno Nevada
 
Addicted
2020 piaggio liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 710
Location: Reno Nevada
UTC quote
I fabricated a new bracket that attaches to the swingarm/muffler support to hold up the exhaust pipe after smoothing the lumps down.

On the stock swingarm the lumps stick out over an inch. I used the holes where the lumps were to attach my home made bracket.

Typically I just throw something together at first to see if it will work and then try to improve on the design so I have several improvements in mind but as yet this is just the first draft of bracket. It works and hold the muffler just off of the axle nut for clearance and that was the goal, keep it as tight to the bike as possible without and clearance issues.

The aftermarket exhaust is ridiculously expensive but it is much lighter than the stock unit. This modification reduces sprung weight which should improve suspension with no longevity sacrifice.

Also generally speaking with breathing improvements that is as close as you are going to get with "free horsepower". For the most part head work to get the valves to work more efficiently and machine work blueprinted to specification combined with a better breathing exhaust will do little to shorten the lifespan of an engine if you can keep your foot out of it...it will last just as long and be just as reliable as a stock engine driven and maintained the same way...but when it's there you tend to use it so in the real world it probably has a shorter lifespan.
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UTC

Addicted
2020 piaggio liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 710
Location: Reno Nevada
 
Addicted
2020 piaggio liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 710
Location: Reno Nevada
UTC quote
Also running the salvage bike used back tire which is the next size bigger on my Liberty.

It is a 110/80-14 as opposed to 100/80-14 which is stock.

I got a new tire last year that has a slow leak and the salvage bike tire never loses so I decided to put it back together this time with the tire that doesn't leak.

So I figured I would get the leak taken care of and try the oversize tire. It rubs the inner fender slightly, I can hear it sometimes. The salvage bike did not come with an inner fender, they probably removed it because it rubbed.

It does seem to handle just fine though and with the performance improvements of variator, exhaust, and lambda emulator it still feels seat of the pants to have faster acceleration and roll on speed even with the slightly taller gearing the larger tire provides. I will probably unplug the battery for a couple days when the stock size goes back on so the computer can reprogram itself again for the different gearing. Curious to see if I can notice any difference with the different size tires.
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