Modern Vespa

Now that the Vermont loophole has been closed, I am gearing up go through the arduous process of filing a petition for a court ordered title for my recent "bill of sale only" purchase of a Honda NC50. Any one have experience with doing this in the great State of Pennsylvania?

I miss VT already.

TIA.

Feelzzz for ya.

I just went with Saints for a few titles. Spendy, but low lift.
I am about to do the TX bonded title boogaloo on 2 others, which is far less expensive than saints... but will take much more effort. *Sighs*

Let us know how ya make out. "Court Order" sounds all judgy and wood panel-ly. Hope the Balances of Justice lean in your favor!

How much is Saints these days? It costs almost $300 just to file the petition here.

Maybe I will document my process for posterity.

400 for Saints

I don't know what the overhead, insurance, etc. costs for Saints, but the actual process is only (IIRC) about $120.

Assuming he's considered a dealer, he gets a special no-wait line, plus other goodies that I didn't get as Just Another Stiff in line at the DMV, too.

I don't begrudge him making a buck and charging for his time and for the hassle… But it kind of would've been cool, if due to the volume increase, he could've actually lowered his rate 25 bucks instead of raising it 25 or 50 bucks or whatever it was…

Of course maybe that was the point. He didn't want the increase the volume when VT shut down, therefore he raised his prices so he would have fewer customers hassling hiim?

Either way I am thankful for the option.

I think the state of Tennessee might have raised prices recently, plus why shouldn't he be allowed to make a buck if the market will bear it? It's hard enough to survive as a vintage motorcycle or scooter business, I respect him for recognizing a problem that puts food on his table and fills a hole in the market.

Oof, just finished doing the Arizona process on a 2000 Kymco ZX50.

Went to the MVD, got a level 1 inspection. Paid $10 to have an MVD representative confirm that a) it's a motorcycle and b), the VIN is legit. They ran a record search and told me the last record was from Illinois, back in 2001. Title only, no registration. They also assessed the value based on a 2003 model at $500, since Arizona didn't know about 2000 model Kymcos.

After several unanswered calls, e-mails and certified letters to the Illinois Secretary of State office, I enlisted the help of a local title service. They provided me the Illinois Records Request form, free if charge, on the promise I would use their service to complete the bonded title process.

I followed the directions delineated on the form, got a $5 postal money order and sent it off Priority Mail with Delivery Confirmation. Got it back two weeks later with a form letter, claiming I left out a photocopy of my driver's license, which wasn't specified by the form. I called the number on the form and confirmed the request before providing a copy along with the letter reference number. Sent the whole package back and two weeks later, I had my record. The title holder was blacked out, of course. Only could tell they had a Roselle, IL zip code.

Went by the insurance agency to get a surety bond for 1.5x the assessed value ($750), which cost me $50.

Took the bond receipt, IL records and the MVD inspection papers to the title office. They issued the bonded title on the spot and registered it for two years for $65.

Overall, I spent about about 1.5 hours and $125 on the AZ side of things. Illinois cost me about two hours in post offices and about $35 for the postage and money order.

It was more complicated due to the scoot never having been registered and the title being old enough that they had to go to microfiche, but if there was a recent registration, it's usually an easier process.

CM-


Don't misunderstand me… like I inferred I am super thankful for the option all day. I just meant that in my business we have less of a mark up on low lift - high turn items. If he would have kept his pricing static the volume increase would still make him a ton of cash. Where as I am now bonding out titles bc his pricing (already steep) got steeper.

I got what ya meant.

My interpretation is that he might be seeing that Vermont going away as an easy option has shifted the supply curve such that he can raise prices and still hit whatever max volume he can/wants to handle.

AZ--buying or selling a used vehicle in the state of Illinois is a nightmare even if you live there. It took me over a year to get the title paperwork approved on a boat I bought, with me having to mail them the information, then get back one thing they didn't like about it at a time, and having to go stand in line at the Sec. of State's office to get a fresh copy of the RUT-75 form, which you had to complete by hand on NCR paper, every time.

The second boat I tried to get titled, I never did succeed. I didn't get it legal until I moved to Tennessee, where it took basically no time/effort at all and I did it as just one more title in the pile at the DMV.

Pennsylvania is a nightmare. No notarized title, no transfer. No bonded titles. If you want a bottle of tequila, you still need to buy it from the state here. Truly still living in the 18th century.

South Carolina is a bit of a pain, but not bad. If you have a Bill of Sale that is notarized, you are halfway there. Then a few forms, one of which can be filled out by your local police to witness the VIN and some pictures from all four sides. As long as it is at least 25 years old with no bad history (easy to check on nicb.org/vincheck), $15, cram it in an envelope and send it off to the State DMV headquarters. Wait time is about 6 weeks. Occasionally, they will give you a temporary title good for 90 days with which you can insure, tag and ride the scoot. After 90 days, you pay another $15 for the permanent title. I did screw up the last time I did this as I bought a P200 at a Yard sale at a back country Church parking lot. The scoot had been donated and no one was willing to give me a bill of sale. No ironclad bill of sale - no title. Sold the scoot off when my wife had health problems. He titled it before the Vermont shut down.

Also, in SC, you don't need a title for tagging anything 50cc and under. Got to give the people that lost their driver's licenses to DUI a break, don't you know.

also in PA here: can't you just get someone in vermont to do the work for you? the loophole is for outofstaters, right? but they're still administering reg for those in-state.

VT loophole is closed.

Yep, was shut down around July 2023, I think. Woe are we who try to fix up and keep the old ones on the road.