Modern Vespa

Hello Vespa peeps,
I recently purchased a 1979 50 special and I am very excited about getting it running. The first problem is the owner had no key (yes they did have a clean title, no worries). Is the key unique? can I purchase a generic key? The ignition switch looks like it would turn with almost anything. I want to make sure it has fire before I begin ordering parts. any further suggestions are welcome. pic attached. Cheers all!

https://www.scooterwest.com/vintage-vespa-ignition-key-1970-s-090919.html

Here you go, although a small jewelers screw driver does the job.

Many thanks Steely Dan
M. Daleo

Are you sure its a special, looks like a v50 to me. Round headlight and metal horncover. Not the plastic horncover and rectangular headlight of a special.

Its also easy to drill out the lock cilinder and put in a new one, they are like 15 bucks at SIP.

This is US market Special. It have Primavera handlebar, neutral indicator lamp, front brake switch for stop light, metal horn cover, ignition lock, battery and battery door, tractor rear light and US fuel tap. Pay attention to front wheel:
- it mounted on wrong side
- tyre seems 3.50(and this can explain why it is mounted on wrong side)

https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Locks/152096

That's the column lock, not the ignition switch in the headset. You can leave it for now unless you need to lock the steering, its obviously unlocked now. See if it runs first, you will likely be ordering more.

I had that model, a three speed, and my friend here in Greece has its twin. More here: Vespa Special 50 US market V5B3T

This is steering column lock not ignition lock.

Yes, it's a 50 Special. For now, I'm not concerned about the steering column lock but thank you very much for the information. The scoot has been sitting in a garage for 30 years. It is not seized, has compression, I will check for fire today. Am I correct that it does not need a battery for the magneto to fire the plug? My biggest worry is that the crankshaft main seal will have degenerated and failed and I will have to split the cases to do the repair. any thoughts on that?
Cheers all! many thanks for the input.

Correct, pull the plug & ground it then kick it over to see if it makes spark. A small amount of 2T oil in the sparkplug hole is a good idea and a new plug wouldn't hurt. I assume you got the ignition switch turned but I think maybe mine had a real key, screw driver no worky. Make sure your kill switch on right handlebar is in run position.

You carb likely needs cleaning etc, but
you can squirt a little gas in the plug hole to see if she pops, then proceed.

Sometimes the old seals hold up enough to run, and it was kept garaged. You'll want to do a crankcase pressure test if it runs but crappy to know for sure. ANY leaks along the way will affect how well it runs and these are already prone to leaks where the carb joins the intake manifold tube.

thanks - will do. I think I can salvage the tank but it is rusted. I will hopefully have time to pull the carb today as well. In your experience is a rebuild kit necessary and available. I imagine a scoot this old has a copper float that may or may not be intact. The needle jet is likely worn and grooved but I'm not sure how critical it is on something so small that runs wide open most of the time.
I'll post some pics soon.
Cheers all!

yeah from my European perspective I could draw no other conclusion that this had to be a v50 that doesn't haven't a ignition only steering lock

Blissfully unaware that there was a unique American market special that has this future.

It's a even worse than expected. The picture says it all. I am hoping to source a new carburetor and not even spend time on this stinky mess. Thoughts on new ...?

Carb rebuild kit is cheap.

Dunk that sucker in acetone to dissolve the varnish.

Not very hard to clean. If you will stay with original cylinder it will enough. But if you want something more then original 16.10 carburetor is not enough.

az_slynch got a suggestion/source for a rebuild kit?

Here's a kit for it:

https://www.scooterwest.com/small-frame-carb-rebuild-kit-16mm.html

Good looking small frame! Congrats.

Another supplier of said carb kit:
https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Carb-Gasket-Kits/CG16-KIT_2

Perhaps the key you need for the ignition, unfortunately, out of stock at the moment:
https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Switches/10884

BTW, looking at the first picture, looks like your front wheel is mounted incorrectly. It needs to be flipped, otherwise the track is not centered on the fork or scooter. Makes for weird handling. Looks like your rear is correct, compare and you can see the difference. Also seems like the tire is too big. Looks like a 3.50-10 tire on the front. That is a large frame tire. You need a 3.00-10 tire. I am guessing that is why it is mounted flipped; as the too-big-tire was rubbing on the fork.

Awesome - many thanks

The tires are dry rotted - I'll address that after I get it running. Thanks for the tip.

Cool that you don't have to deal with turn signals.

If the tank is way rusted, a new Piaggio is around a hundred bucks one less thing to think about.

That carb is as expected. A carb sitting that long with premix in it will look like yours and at 6:30 in the the below video.
Btw I highly recommend this series.
Goes over every. single. thing. Saved me several pages on my 100 Sport thread.

Inject 2t oil with a syringe (maybe 1/2 full) down the spark plug hole and kick it without the spark plug a few times before starting it. If you haven't solved the key switch, you can disconnect the kill wire at the junction box to test for spark.

Expect the clutch to be locked-up. Put it in gear and try to roll it with the clutch pulled.

&list=PLauclWHvbpSbSEDSisncAAKrxAz6_n4_f&index=13

The key is actually broken off in the ignition. Si I can turn it off and on but cannot remove the key.
Thanks for the video suggestion.

So I think you have a regular key w/ slots on the side like the one I had. If you can fish the broken piece out w/ a shot of Teflon spray and small tweezers, you can probably get a copy made.

If not, you can remove the head lite and undo the nut holding the ignition switch in to remove it. Now a good locksmith can probably get that piece out & make you a new key. Just be sure to snap a pic of where the wires go for when you put it back together.

I had this issue with the fork lock on my Allstate Compact. I used a cheap mechanic's pick set to fish it out.

Something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Rotation-Pick-Hook-4-Piece-Tools/dp/B08W3H1SCV

Many thanks for the support. I now have a running, vintage vespa, small frame, 50 Special. It runs well but the clutch is slipping a bit. I changed the oil and used a 10W40 (It's hot in south Texas). Do you reckon the slip is from the heavier oil? or are the clutch plates done after all these years? I tried to post a video but the extension mp4 is not allowed here? Sorry you cannot hear it roar!

Clutch plates are probably cooked.

Clutch rebuild is a minor PITA, but doable for sure.
I'm in H-town so holler if you get in a pickle. Happy to help.


Gear Oil - Gear Oil for Shifty Vespas

We are both in Houston? It's beautiful weather in Houston today! I don't have a manual. do you have a link to an exploded view of the clutch Assy? Does the motor have to come off the frame?
Cheers!

Yep yep. I'm just north of the heights.

https://www.scooterhelp.com/serial/V5A1T.V5SA1T.V9A1T.parts.html

You can do the clutch without pulling the motor.
Rear hub, and exhaust come off.

I think there is a good video of Robot from Scooterwest doing a clutch.

Bike nite tonight - Cactus Cove

Great weather for it! Bahhh… tomorrow is a travel day for me so no bandwidth for shenanigans.

Here's the clutch vid.

Note - You may be able to leave the exhaust in place if it's a stock pipe.

Non detergent 30w is normal. A 10/40 motorcycle oil for wet clutches is OK. Just not regular 10/40 motor oil.

great video - I'll change the oil first and see if that solves the problem before I order the clutch rebuild kit. Why can't we post videos on this platform?

you can post up to youtube and link it but no way to upload video directly

What oil is recommended for the gearbox/clutch? The owners manual says SAE 30W but modern oils have friction modifiers that may cause clutch slippage.
Before I tear down the clutch I want to try a different oil. It currently has 10w40 automotive oil and it slips under a full power.

Non-detergent 30W is fine. NAPA sells it.

Mineral based 75w90 non detergent oil that can be used on gears and clutches is recommended if you're using aftermarket parts.

But regardless, a mineral based sae 30 works just fine too.

After flushing out the old and replacing it with the correct non-detergent oil the clutch seems to shift/work a little better but I still have some slipping in 3rd and 4th gears. And now I have a new problem: The kickstart does not engage sometimes. When I kick it, it feels like the compression is gone. But after sitting (or if I remove the plug and kick it over a few times) The starter clutch engages and the engine starts and runs fine.
? Is there a starter clutch? Are the starting issue and the clutch slipping related?
Many thanks for you insights!

I'm guessing the clutch plates and the spring might been worn passed the point of working.

Kicking it and it feels like it's slipping is a sign of slipping. (Sorry for being obvious)

It might happen after you do an oil change with the type of oil… but starting it and pulling the clutch lever allows the new oil back onto the plates…

Ah, I see - How difficult is it to replace the clutch plates and springs? Is there an all inclusive kit available for the 50 special?