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@roland87 avatar
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Molto Verboso
'13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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Location: Ukraine. Kyiv.
 
Molto Verboso
@roland87 avatar
'13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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Location: Ukraine. Kyiv.
UTC quote
My mate gave me PK for engine mounts and steering bearings change and some other works.
I changed engine mounts and threw engine back.

And noticed that ignition lock not working. There still a spark on the plug when lock is turn to "OFF".
Ignition is Vape Road, almost new, only 2000 km done.
If I add ground wire between engine and chassis - all works as it should.
The same problem is on my 50 Special with same ignition. But it appeared after near 10000 km and few years since ignition was installed. And also after engine was took from the chassis for rebuild.

I also noticed that SIP sell ground wire for Vape ignition so maybe this is well known problem now?


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UTC

parallelogramerist
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parallelogramerist
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UTC quote
I can only assume that it's a problem, what i can't say is if it's a well know problem. Seems like having a CDI that's mounted through rubber bushings is going to be potential for a possible failure. Poor grounding is ALWAYS going to be an issue with anything electrical. For all of my scooter builds i will add in a few extra grounds, one from the CDI to the engine block, another from the block to the frame, and another from the headset to the frame. I usually tack weld the head of a M60x20mm screw to the frame so that it can be a grounding lug (both at the front and rear of the frame.
@bajarob avatar
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Molto Verboso
1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, 2003 Malaguti F12 Phantom,Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
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Location: Ventura, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@bajarob avatar
1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, 2003 Malaguti F12 Phantom,Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
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Location: Ventura, CA
UTC quote
Roland I second whodat. Rubber mounted engines need a dedicated ground to the frame. Even rigid engines need a metal to metal contact to work correctly. On all the engines in the planes I work on we make sure there are two separate grounding points for redundancy.

Rob
OP
@roland87 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1381
Location: Ukraine. Kyiv.
 
Molto Verboso
@roland87 avatar
'13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1381
Location: Ukraine. Kyiv.
UTC quote
I'm absolutely understand you guys.
But all was work for some time on both scooters without any extra wires...
@safis avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Posts: 4490
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
@safis avatar
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4490
Location: Veria, Greece
UTC quote
Agree with the gents above. Some extra ground points are a good thing. First pic CDI is double grounded to engine and second pic engine grounded to regulator / frame / battery...
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@108 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
V range 50s
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Ossessionato
@108 avatar
V range 50s
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UTC quote
It definitely works with the brown cable from the vape stator.

But I think it might not be enough.

Vezzola CDI mounting kits come with a dedicated ground. I've never brought one, but seems like a great idea.

I've added a ground, pretty much what the SIP cable is… 13awg if I remember right.

I'm not sure if a ground from the frame to the engine matters… never seen that before on a Vespa.
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@ginch avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@ginch avatar
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8831
Location: Victoria, Australia
UTC quote
In the past few months I've seen people mention issues - like poor running, spluttering - that cleared up once an earth wire was fitted.
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parallelogramerist
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parallelogramerist
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UTC quote
Here are pics of the multiple grounds on my blue Allstate 12DC vape harness. I'd like to think i'm well grounded.
Battery negative post to frame ground. The m6 screw is welded to the frame.
Battery negative post to frame ground. The m6 screw is welded to the frame.
regulator rectifier is directly bolted to the aluminum battery box which is also grounded to frame. Then a second brown colored ground wire goes from reg/rec and battery tray to the negative battery post.
regulator rectifier is directly bolted to the aluminum battery box which is also grounded to frame. Then a second brown colored ground wire goes from reg/rec and battery tray to the negative battery post.
Brown ground wire goes from the CDI to the engine case.
Brown ground wire goes from the CDI to the engine case.
Another brown ground wire is attached to the other side of the CDI bracket (just in case the rubber mounting buffers do too good of a job as a rubber buffer).
Another brown ground wire is attached to the other side of the CDI bracket (just in case the rubber mounting buffers do too good of a job as a rubber buffer).
Another m6 grounding lug screw that's been welded to the steering column (right behind the horn).
Another m6 grounding lug screw that's been welded to the steering column (right behind the horn).
@bajarob avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, 2003 Malaguti F12 Phantom,Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1408
Location: Ventura, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@bajarob avatar
1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, 2003 Malaguti F12 Phantom,Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1408
Location: Ventura, CA
UTC quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Here are pics of the multiple grounds on my blue Allstate 12DC vape harness. I'd like to think i'm well grounded.
Just like my mother would yell " You're grounded, Mister!! ".
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