Modern Vespa

What are your thoughts on vintage engine swap/conversion projects?

It looks like they're much more popular in England with Lambretta-heads replacing their 2T engines with 4t auto engines (Typhoon, GY6, Gilera Runner, Piaggio Quasar) by welding new subframes. I'm stateside so I don't have a real frame of reference for how popular they are.

I've never been able to ride a two stroke in Europe when I've travelled (in UK, France, and Italy mainly) so it's likely that the emissions laws are promoting these innovations.

Years ago, I've seen some horror show photos of electric bikes with a handful of battery cells strapped everywhere, or a Vespa frame cut to fit a chinese motor.

In the last decade, EV technology has made leaps and bounds. I'm looking into a bolt-in electric conversion kit (https://www.retrospectivescooters.com/for-sale/project-e-electric-vespa-conversion) which seems like a great way go green/get ahead of emissions while keeping vintage frames sustainably on the road.

I am a bit of a luddite and card carrying member of the village green preservation society...

I loose all interest in any conversion once hacking and welding of vintage collectable frames occurs. I'm the same with the older, collectable motors... once you start grinding/welding on OG cases I get a little (Read: a lot) hesitant.

I am not saying there is a right or wrong answer either. I just dig the simplicity and economy of the original machines. I like to see them preserved and well cared for as their numbers continue to decrease.

Bernietime, a member on here, has been doing some electrical conversions for awhile and could supply everything you need. I don't think there is any cutting involved, just replacement. And it could all be converted back to original whenever you want.

But I must admit, I'm with Birds on this one. In some areas of the world in big cities there is a strong advantage for doing these conversions. Here, it is a bit of a novelty. Now if I can across a scoot with no engine , I may consider it when the price of the batteries drop some. Meanwhile, you could build a hella 2 stroke engine for what some of these conversions go for. But it's your coin and scoot.

That's understandable. I mentioned that there's a bolt in kit I'm looking at and logistically you could remove the OG engine and misc parts and put them on the shelf, but if you weld a new subframe, you could utilize some space for storage which not all bikes have to begin with.

I'm in the city with pretty standard commute, so a 90 mile battery life works for me for the day to day stuff.

Where are located? Bernietime has a bolt on kit and he is stateside, so give him a shout. I'm sure you guys could figure something out. The shipping from England will be a killer alone. But a 90 mile range may be very hard to accomplish, but talk to Bernie.

^^
+1

Here is one of his conversion threads.
DIY EV Vespa - (E-Vespa?...Vesla?)

Also in clarification of my earlier comments... do note I am a HUGE fan of people modifying and customizing bad ass rides from old fucked out bikes. CM22 and Whodat, Voodoo and many others here have given bikes magical second lives. Taking old rusted or bodgy bikes and resuscitating them into something better, that's a bad ass thing.

in that video they're using the same EV kit from Retrospective Scooters I'm eyeing.

Good eye! That video is a retrospective kit. Those guys rock and have been on the cutting edge of the conversion game for some time.

Someone paid me to install one for them a couple of years back. While installing it, I realized I could make it faster, less expensive and better (?).
At the time, the retrospective kit had the following specs:
-they were 60v
-still had a rear drum brake
-only had a 20ish mile range
-top speed of 50ish (if you weighed under 150lbs.)
-cost $5.5k USD (with a minimum order of 2 kits at a time... sooo 11k)

I developed my own kit with a stronger swingarm, 72v custom battery with larger capacity (longer range), variable regen, rear disc brake, more powerful controller, etc. etc. etc.

I just finished converting a Stella yesterday and I am putting together an updated youtube video. I'll link it on here when it's posted.

Although it's a lot of work and the price of the EV components is still relatively high (I'm talking to YOU batteries!), it doesn't make sense for the kits to be priced at $5,500. We love our Vespas BUT at the end of the day most of them are worth $2,000 and we've already put $3,000 into them

SO I priced my kits at the same price as a professional engine rebuild--more or less. You also get $500 off if you donate your running engine to me

BTW, large frames can easily hold 2 batteries (60 miles with city driving on flat roads, 50 miles realistically). Smallframes can really only hold one battery but IMO they are the perfect EV swap candidate because they handle so well and are feel rediculous (in a good way) going 65mph and popping a wheelie...

They're all built for 10" wheels though aren't they? Need an 8" solution for the old oldies!

Correct... the smallest quality hub motors I have been able to source have been the 10".
However, an 8" set up would be feasible with a mid drive motor and a chain to a rear wheel and sprocket.
Similar to the razor electric scooter fad going around. It wouldn't be as efficient as a hub motor but man would it sound cool.
If someone is interested in an 8" build, let me know. I love a challenge!

how do you feel about the retrospective kits now? they engineered bolt on for nearly every model vintage. obv the battery price is relative to the market, but their kits now have a rear disc brake, 60mph top speed, 72v batteries with a max range of about 80 miles. This isn't WOT of course, you can travel up to 80 miles at lower speeds and likely 50 round trip at WOT, seemingly double what they were previously capable of.

the lambretta kit doesn't have as much ground clearance as the vespa kits have. the height is apparently akin to having an exhaust on a vintage 2t, but I generally wouldn't have an issue with scraping my exhaust on a curb.

I think the easiest and cleanest solution to the range issue is a made to fit battery where the tank goes. Bolt it in and you are good to go.

Nobody has done this, but it is the answer.

Oxy...where did you read a claimed 80miles range? Just been on their website and (albeit this is for the classic large frame) it still only claims 50-55miles with an EXTRA large battery. WoT or a hilly county and that would surely go down to <40? For the unbelievably hefty price tag 50 mile range is just an absolute no no from me apart from a central city dweller or lottery winner. I would however be interested to see how sales are doing after these kits have been available now for (Im guessing) 3 years?
Id jump at the chance of converting mine but from what I can read, we dont seem to have increased range or speed in the last 3 or 4 years.....solely I suppose down to the lack of battery type/ aH rating.
Ill keep looking though!

No problems owning and riding a two stroke Vespa or Lambretta anywhere in the UK........for the time being. Just make sure they are either older than 40 years or in the case of a Vespa PX, one of the Euro 3 ones built from 2011. If you're feeling naughty, you can kit/tune any of the above, but keep quiet about it if you want to be strictly compliant with historic and low emissions zone criteria.

I just checked their website and it looks like you are correct, they use 72v batteries and have moved to disc brakes. Looks like both of our kits are fairly similar. They have small differences like their clutch cable is used as an emergency cut off whereas mine is used for variable regen... but at the core, they are pretty comparable now--minus price.

@Dsynder -- that's where my batteries go. I have mine custom made in a triangle shape that works for both small and largeframes. Custom batteries are still too expensive. I am currently working with the EV riders club down here in San Diego. We are trying to use Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid Battery Modules (N.O.S.). They are 60v (67v when fully charged) and 2.6KW. This would be good for 65-70 miles. Oh and they only cost $350. Whereas the current batteries I have made are 72v (84v fully charged) and 1.5KW. They cost $850
SO, hopefully in the near future, I'll be able to use these and drop the price of my kit by $500. There would be a slight trade off in top speed but I think it would be totally worth it for the more than doubled range and $500 price cut. We shall see.