Modern Vespa

…or T5 engines are awesome?

I watched this video, and, not having any hands-on experience with a T5, didn't know what to make of it.

Was hoping to get some perspective from some of y'all with more experience than myself.

There was one for sale in Houston in about 2010? I went to look at it and kinda made friends with the owner as we chatted. I ended up getting to test ride it and fell in love. The engine is just a gem. Now... this scoot's selector cables had issues... and, I was only driving around the montrose neighborhood... so I didn't get to ring it out and get the full experience... but yeah... I should have bought it. (Was too poor at the time.)

If one came up for sale close to me again, I'd buy in a heartbeat.

T5 engines are fine and highly tunable. FMP seems to be on some kind of a witch-hunt to prove that every engine, design or product sucks. He has a point on some stuff but questionable on some other. He's been in war with every company that produces parts, resulting in being blocked everywhere on FB, although lately he constantly praises SIP…

Go figure…

All Vespa engines suck at some point. They seem especially sensitive to not being ridden. My scooter ran great when I put it away for the winter. Now it runs like crap. Will clean out the carb for starters. If I don't do it in the driveway, I'll be doing it later by the side of the road.

googling around for dyno's, it looks like T5's are easy to get into the 15 HP range with just basics like exhaust swaps. if you're into stock bikes, it don't get better than that.

they are terrible junk

send them all to me

i will take care of them for you

(they do seem to have tons of fans though and greasy likes them, so I'd love to try one)

I also own a T5. When i bought it, it was all still stock. It felt a bit down on power compared to my stock P2 though. After i split the cases i saw that the rotory pad was pretty darn roached...along with JB Weld half chunking off of it. I tossed a LOT of $$$$ at a bunch of fancy fixins at it, and now it's a really fast reeded Malossi 172. I'd still like to find a second T5 that's in decent stock condition.

They are also sensitive to not having money spent on them.

The absolute only reason why i threw so much money at it was because i turned it into my race ready track bike. Otherwise the maintenance for a for a T5 would have been the same for a P series.

Nowadays with all the fancy pants smallblock PX150 cylinder kits that are out there on the market, a T5 engine might not be at critical to own to be the top dog for smallblock cylinder kits? But there is something to be said about the quick revving of the T5's short stroke crankshaft.

Sorry for the clickbait title…

Truth is, since I saw the NOS T5 frames for sale at Scooter Center, I haven't been able to put it out of my mind and was trying to decide how lame it would be to put a non-T5 engine in one.

Ugh… this scooter thing is a mental illness

Why not?
There was few factory T5 without T5 engine.

You can do a TX / GS one with a 200 motor. It won't be a true T5 but will still look like one…

A local supplier I work with, has or had (I can ask) one last set of NOS T5 cases (I got one for myself) but I don't know if it's worth it due to surely expensive postage…

And there's also the Pinasco alternative (replica cases)…

I believe the Pinasco 250 is basically a development of its T5 cases. At least it has much more in common with the T5 than the 200's. Great looking cases, big downfall is it only takes a Pinasco 250 crank and cylinder.

The T5 is a beautiful scoot with an epic engine. Even in its 125 form, the "flying carpet" effect when hitting the power band is an awesome experience unlike anything you can get out of a PX. It might seem slightly underpowered in the lower rev range (especially when compared with what comes next), but a 172 top end solves that rather nicely. Where PX engines feel somewhat tractor-like, mechanical, and linear in their power delivery, the T5 is super smooth, and makes you feel like you're being yanked from a rubber band when the revs kick in. Hard to describe the many differences, but it is quite a unique riding experience.

That being said, I always say a T5 is great as a 2nd bike, or if your other alternative is a PX125 and you intend to use the freeway a bit. Being more comfortable in the higher revs than lower down has its downsides around town, and if compared to a 200, up hills.

Cosmetically, although I'll admit there's something strange about the back being all straight, I love it. And the headset and rectangular headlight.... just look soo cool. But that might just be me. Big fan of this car below, probably for the same reason...

One thing that isn't mentioned about the back end being more angular and loosing the traditional curvature of the PX is that it allows for a longer seat. This makes it a bonus for riding with a passenger.

The second version of the T5 went back to the usual PX frame and they called it the "classic". Personally I think the square tail is hideous...... but many love it.
Why was there never a T5 200 engine? Too fast?

So true when the T5 arrived I too didn't like the rear end but eventually became fond of the scooter for other reasons. Why didn't Malossi or Pinasco design their new engine cases with a T5 platform it might have been a real winner.

At least one of them did. Unfortunately for us it was the wrong one.


As a for-instance on Pinasco's thinking, in each crankcase description SIP notes at the bottom that Pinasco use a thinner than normal kickstart shaft... Pinasco say an early P fits. But SIP says that no shaft on the market currently will fit these cases.


Later they produced this below which is based heavily on the T5 (so the GSF speculation goes). The 250 has all but disappeared, which says something about it's popularity.

Damn near every part in the 251 was proprietary to Pinasco and the parts were really expensive ($5k US, if memory served).

I got to take a look at all the parts when they first made it to the US and came away underwhelmed, even with the improvements I liked (e.g. the splined clutch). It was just a lot of outlay for what it was. If they'd made it more "mix and match" with existing parts, it probably would have had a better chance of success in the market.

Pinasco has gone full proprietary crap. Even their new 200 cases need their cranks since they widened the rotary pad and no aftermarket crank will seal it…

Piaggio did actually experimented with a bigger T5ish engine. There's a story on GSF of two guys getting their hands on some destroyed cases from Piaggio's scrapyard. Cases seemed to be designed for a Cosa frame (longer rear shock arm) with reeds and probably mechanically fuel injected. Crank was a 57mm stroke with a 105mm rod. Pics from the story…

Not really. The base is longer, but since the seat slopes inwards upward to follow the line of the body, it ends up pretty much the same "useful" length as a PX (about a quarter inch longer in this case, but dunno if that's just due to vague tolerances in seat cover sewing, or intended).

Well shucks strike that from the record!

Aesthetically, length is not better than fugly. Would still only buy a Classic T5.

BAN HIM!!!