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Hello. I have a 2017 GTS. The battery just died so I put in a new battery.

Just before I changed the battery, I jumped it and it started just fine. But wouldn't keep running after I disconnected the jumper cables. So I thought it was a bad battery (3-4 years old).

I bought a new one. It turns over just fine and I can hear the fuel pump. But won't start. All lights and everything is working.

Is it an immobilizer issue? I wonder… I am using the OEM key. I also just tried the brown key and still no start…
⚠️ Last edited by hoch on UTC; edited 1 time
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Check the fuses on my 2008 I know there is 25amp fuse under the seat. if that fuse is blown no start.
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Thanks. All fuses are good. (6 of them in the glove box).

I also checked the immobilizer light (red LED). The brown key, it blinks once, then 3 slow blinks (cranks, but doesn't start). One of the other keys, one blink, then two blinks and LED stays lit (no crank). The third key, just a single blink and LED stays off (cranks but doesn't start). So the third key should work but no go.

According to this, the master key should start as well:
Immobilizer LED codes
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Does the brake light go on when you are squeezing one of the brake levers?
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Tierney wrote:
Does the brake light go on when you are squeezing one of the brake levers?
Yes, brake lights come on. All electronics appear to be working (trunk release, brake light, dash lights, fuel pump, etc).

I've crossed out the immobilizer issue.

So confusing since it just started and ran this morning. Also ran fine a couple of weeks ago.
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Side stand switch faulty ?
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Binettasteve wrote:
Side stand switch faulty ?
Mine doesn't have a side stand (I'm in the U.S.). And if tripped, doesn't the scooter not crank at all?

And I thought those were standardized only after 2019 models.
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If you can hear the fuel pump, and the engine is turning over (cranking away ) but won't start, then it does not sound like battery (keep it topped up while testing), the fuel pump, the relay nor the starter!

You need to check that you are getting spark.
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rdhood wrote:
If you can hear the fuel pump, and the engine is turning over (cranking away ) but won't start, then it does not sound like battery (keep it topped up while testing), the fuel pump, the relay nor the starter!

You need to check that you are getting spark.
Will do. It still seems odd that it's affect the ignition system after a battery change. But maybe I jostled something when changing the battery??
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rdhood wrote:
If you can hear the fuel pump, and the engine is turning over (cranking away ) but won't start, then it does not sound like battery (keep it topped up while testing), the fuel pump, the relay nor the starter!

You need to check that you are getting spark.
Agreed.
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The sarcastic reply would be to check to see if it has fuel... Facepalm emoticon

If it cranks and you hear the fuel pump and it has plenty of fuel in the tank, then you need to drill down on the 3 things that make the motor work: Fuel, Air and Spark. I would check for a bad/fouled plug, a broken or disconnected plug wire, a broken/crimped/clogged fuel line, or a fouled fuel filter/screen at the fuel pump. Also take a peek at your air filter.

Good luck.
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Jon651 wrote:
The sarcastic reply would be to check to see if it has fuel... Facepalm emoticon

If it cranks and you hear the fuel pump and it has plenty of fuel in the tank, then you need to drill down on the 3 things that make the motor work: Fuel, Air and Spark. I would check for a bad/fouled plug, a broken or disconnected plug wire, a broken/crimped/clogged fuel line, or a fouled fuel filter/screen at the fuel pump. Also take a peek at your air filter.

Good luck.
Thank you, Jon. I just filled it with gas a couple of weeks ago but haven't ridden since due to poor weather.

I'm hoping I accidentally bumped the plug wire. But will check the items mentioned.
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Jon651,

Sound advise on this forum. Regrettably, I am mechanically impaired - so it would be off to the Vespa Dealer. I know this sounds supid, do you have the kill switch engaged. Although< i think there would be no juice then.

Bob Copeland
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Bob Copeland wrote:
Jon651,

Sound advise on this forum. Regrettably, I am mechanically impaired - so it would be off to the Vespa Dealer. I know this sounds supid, do you have the kill switch engaged. Although< i think there would be no juice then.

Bob Copeland
Hi Bob,

Yes, I toggled that a few times. But if that were disabled, the engine wouldn't turn over. I have heard those switches can go bad over time. But that doesn't seem to be the issue in this case. Thanks though!
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hoch wrote:
Hi Bob,

Yes, I toggled that a few times. But if that were disabled, the engine wouldn't turn over. I have heard those switches can go bad over time. But that doesn't seem to be the issue in this case. Thanks though!
Yes, if there were a problem with the immobilizer or the kill switch or such the engine would not crank.
The best is indeed to check if there is spark.

A few responses back you said: "It still seems odd that it's affect the ignition system after a battery change. But maybe I jostled something when changing the battery??"
Which is true: a battery change should not affect the ignition system, and changing the battery is a straightforward thing to do.

Maybe go back to the beginning: you jumpstarted the scooter. How and with what battery did you jumpstart the scooter?
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PeterCC wrote:
Yes, if there were a problem with the immobilizer or the kill switch or such the engine would not crank.
The best is indeed to check if there is spark.

A few responses back you said: "It still seems odd that it's affect the ignition system after a battery change. But maybe I jostled something when changing the battery??"
Which is true: a battery change should not affect the ignition system, and changing the battery is a straightforward thing to do.

Maybe go back to the beginning: you jumpstarted the scooter. How and with what battery did you jumpstart the scooter?
Hi Peter. Thanks for the message.

I jumped it with my car. But didn't have the car running. I pulled each fuse and all were good.

I believe the spark plug wire runs by the battery compartment. Maybe I accidentally pulled the wire enough to dislodge the plug. That's what I'm hoping anyway. But like all of my previous problems, it's never that simple!

Another thought was, when I jumped it, it kept running until I removed the jumper cables. (Happened twice). Obviously not enough battery juice to keep it running. I wonder if I flooded the engine. Another thing I'll need to check.
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hoch wrote:
Thanks. All fuses are good. (6 of them in the glove box).
There are more fuses.

iirc one in the battery compartment and one under the pet carrier. read user manual for precise locations.

Also did you check them with your eyes or with a multimeter?
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On my other FI bikes, if they fail to start easily it can be becuse they are flooded with excess fuel. If that happens the instruction is to crank the starter over with the throttle wide open, which signals the FI system to stop injecting fuel so it can clear away. Do Vespa's also behave like that?
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cadbury64 wrote:
On my other FI bikes, if they fail to start easily it can be becuse they are flooded with excess fuel. If that happens the instruction is to crank the starter over with the throttle wide open, which signals the FI system to stop injecting fuel so it can clear away. Do Vespa's also behave like that?
No. The ecu will refuse to crank if the throttle is even slightly open
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SteelBytes wrote:
There are more fuses.

iirc one in the battery compartment and one under the pet carrier. read user manual for precise locations.

Also did you check them with your eyes or with a multimeter?
You're correct. There is one 30A fuse in the battery compartment. From research, it appears they moved the fuse from under the pet carrier to the batt compartment sometime after 2016 or so.

I just visually checked them. I'll have to get a multimeter and check if I'm getting 12v. But would any of those fuses cause the starter to crank but engine not fire?
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SteelBytes wrote:
No. The ecu will refuse to crank if the throttle is even slightly open
I found that out when I tried to give it gas while cranking.


Well, I checked the fuses (visually) and the plug wire. All seated correctly.

Guess next step is to check the fuses with a multimeter. But I have doubts since all lights and other electrical components appear to be working fine.

I also need to test for spark. But will wait until I can get a new spark plug.
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SteelBytes wrote:
No. The ecu will refuse to crank if the throttle is even slightly open
Thanks for that, more useful info to file away.
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Just pulled the plug.
I tested for spark as well and all is good. I did order a new plug just in case. But spark isn't the problem. Hoping it's a flooded engine. I'm leaving the spark plug out for the night and will try it in the morning.
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Put the spark plug back in, hoping if it were flooded engine, the gas would've evaporated overnight. Still no go this morning.

One thing I've noticed is when I first try starting it, the engine sputters for a second like it's about to start. Then on the subsequent start attempt, it just turns and nothing. 🤔
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How did you charge the new battery? And what voltage does it drop to while cranking?
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SteelBytes wrote:
How did you charge the new battery? And what voltage does it drop to while cranking?
I bought the battery at Autozone. They tested it at 84% charge. It cranked fine. But I also used my jump start battery pack just in case. End results were the same.

I haven't checked the voltage but with the battery pack, I'd think it'd not be an issue?

I should also check the injector. I just didn't want to mess with it but it's the only other thing I can think of.
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I had a similar issue with my old Primevera.

I kinda did a couple of solutions all at once so unsure exactly what the exact solution worked.

Changed the battery.

Re-placed the earth cable, as it was hanging on by a thread. On the Primevera it was attached near the transmission cover/foot peg area. Terrible location as it just rusted away. I think it will be located in a similar place on your GTS.

Replaced the "main fuse".

And a mechanic friend of mine pulled a small cover off in the engine compartment and used a lighter to burn off a slight amount of fuel where I think I had possibly flooded the engine (I did have a faulty Throttle Body ECU, which meant the engine did not idle so constantly had to keep the revs up) I cannot remember what exactly it was though.
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Thanks. I'll check out the ground cable and maybe replace the fuse.


Upon some further research, I came across another potential issue.

Could this be the result of a bad sprag clutch? Or one that has been stuck open. When I tested the spark plug, I remember it wasn't just a little blue spark. It was a big yellow spark. So it got me thinking.

Per this thread for reference. jimc 's comment on page one caught my eye.
300GTS Not starting (Page 2)
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hoch wrote:
(...)
Could this be the result of a bad sprag clutch? Or one that has been stuck open.
When I tested the spark plug, I remember it wasn't just a little blue spark. It was a big yellow spark. So it got me thinking.

Per this thread for reference. jimc 's comment on page one caught my eye.
300GTS Not starting (Page 2)
First: the color of the spark that you see is determined by what elements are in the spark. Each element when ionized in a spark emits a different color spectrum. A bit of contamination on the spark plug changes the color.

Anyway, the color is not relevant. What is relevant is that it is a strong spark.
You tested it outside of the engine in air. But in the engine it has to spark in an air-fuel mixture at some 10 bar. The higher the pressure, the harder it is to spark.
Considering it is a recent GTS 300 with electronic ignition I have no doubt if you see a spark it is a strong spark. But checking that with a brand new spark plug is fine. It is cheap.

Second: if there is a problem with the sprag clutch you will notice that the starter engine runs at an unusually high rev and does not go up and down in revs in an engine cycle.
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cadbury64 wrote:
On my other FI bikes, if they fail to start easily it can be becuse they are flooded with excess fuel. If that happens the instruction is to crank the starter over with the throttle wide open, which signals the FI system to stop injecting fuel so it can clear away. Do Vespa's also behave like that?
I tried it on my Primavera today. It not only cranked with the throttle wide open, it actually started. I was glad I had it on the center stand! So, I presume that it didn't disable the injector.
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PeterCC wrote:
First: the color of the spark that you see is determined by what elements are in the spark. Each element when ionized in a spark emits a different color spectrum. A bit of contamination on the spark plug changes the color.

Anyway, the color is not relevant. What is relevant is that it is a strong spark.
You tested it outside of the engine in air. But in the engine it has to spark in an air-fuel mixture at some 10 bar. The higher the pressure, the harder it is to spark.
Considering it is a recent GTS 300 with electronic ignition I have no doubt if you see a spark it is a strong spark. But checking that with a brand new spark plug is fine. It is cheap.

Second: if there is a problem with the sprag clutch you will notice that the starter engine runs at an unusually high rev and does not go up and down in revs in an engine cycle.
COLOR IS RELEVANT.
blue color is what your looking for
orange or yellowish is a weak voltage

yes the engine has to have proper spark to IGNITE fuel

testing the spark plug outside of the head is just fine. ask ANY professional mechanic.
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Will it start with starting fluid?
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hoch wrote:
I bought the battery at Autozone. They tested it at 84% charge. It cranked fine. But I also used my jump start battery pack just in case. End results were the same.

I haven't checked the voltage but with the battery pack, I'd think it'd not be an issue?

I should also check the injector. I just didn't want to mess with it but it's the only other thing I can think of.
So not only did you not charge the new battery but you've never measured the voltage at any time in this story?
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I haven't tried starter fluid. I don't have a multimeter either. I'll have to borrow one.

But here is a video. It's with the jump pack hooked up.
https://youtube.com/shorts/wu9ldJtodng?si=2PmRh8Yn-6Ko6LvT

I'm going to take out the throttle body and give it a clean. Although I really don't think that'd be the issue.
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old as dirt wrote:
COLOR IS RELEVANT.
blue color is what your looking for
orange or yellowish is a weak voltage
(...)
I do not agree with that.

It is in the physics of an arc.

The spark ionizes the atoms that are in the gap between the contact points.
What elements are in this gap determine the color.

If it is only pure air, a mixture of oxygen and nitrogen, and a small amount of noble gasses, the color will be blue, but if there is some contamination present, something as an example, that contains a bit of Natrium (Sodium), the color will be orange.

From a different approach: if there is only pure air in between the contact points you will never get an orange spark, whatever you do, whatever the spark strength is.
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Mystery solved!

It turned out to be the 10A fuse, which I believe is connected to the ECU.
The stock one looked fine visually (picture below) but apparently not!
I swapped in a new 10a fuse and it's all good!
Thanks for the help, all!
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
⚠️ Last edited by hoch on UTC; edited 1 time
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hoch wrote:
The stock one looked fine visually (picture below) but apparently not!
That's when a cheap multimeter comes in handy.
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hoch wrote:
Mystery solved!

It turned out to be the 10A fuse, which I believe is connected to the ECU.
The stock one looked fine visually (picture below) but apparently not!
I swapped in a new 10a fuse and it's all good!
Thanks for the help, all!
glad you got it. out of curiosity would you do another spark plug spark check and tell us the color of the spark now that its back to normal.
Harbor freight has decent mid priced multimeters. they are handy to have not just for scooters but for the home as well.
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old as dirt wrote:
glad you got it. out of curiosity would you do another spark plug spark check and tell us the color of the spark now that its back to normal.
Harbor freight has decent mid priced multimeters. they are handy to have not just for scooters but for the home as well.
Sure, can do. I'll do it when I get the new spark plug, as I'm just going to change it out. So I'll test with the old plug and the new one. Unfortunately the order has been delayed yet again. So much for Prime delivery.
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hoch wrote:
Sure, can do. I'll do it when I get the new spark plug, as I'm just going to change it out. So I'll test with the old plug and the new one. Unfortunately the order has been delayed yet again. So much for Prime delivery.
thank you
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