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So I'm trying to pull my swingarm and it's stuck. Tapped on it for 15 minutes and doesn't seem to want to budge. I also feel like there's... A LOT of wiggle here. Is it too much wiggle? Should I go ahead and get a new bearing? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tks-xygeSooWFKnlUnVkOHFg5vhFnMzx/view?usp=drivesdk

Sidebar: do we think this exhaust bushing is good to reinstall with, rather than replace?
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Way to much wiggle, swop the bearing out. The arm will come away use loads of penetrating oil and get someone to hold the bike then pull and giggle pull and giggle it will come away, I've done it recently. The bushing looks good to me.
Oh the joys of biking!
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here's a tool (not sure if hammering is good for the bearing at the other end of the axle ...) https://pope-passion.myshopify.com/products/abzieher-fur-schwingarm

This related tool might also be useful http://pope-passion.myshopify.com/products/abzieher-fur-radnabe-wenn-es-mal-klemmt
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First let's get terminology correct: that is the exhaust bracket not swing arm

Use lots of penetrating oil and heat the bearing. Patience as it will take time. You can get a bearing puller from Harbor Freight and get it on there and put some pressure. Another way is to put axle nut on and tap with hammer

Eventually you will hear a pop and will come loose.

Replace the bearing in the exhaust bracket
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Yeah when it was clearly clunking I figured it was looser than it oughta be. Bearing now enroute from Scooter West. I'll find a puller at HF and try that later this week. Gotta get some torx bits for the torque wrench anyway for putting it back together.

Edited to add: I've been doing the tapping with the nut rethreaded partway, I think the play in the bearing isn't helping.
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wbdvt wrote:
First let's get terminology correct: that is the exhaust bracket not swing arm

Use lots of penetrating oil and heat the bearing. Patience as it will take time. You can get a bearing puller from Harbor Freight and get it on there and put some pressure. Another way is to put axle nut on and tap with hammer

Eventually you will hear a pop and will come loose.

Replace the bearing in the exhaust bracket
Yes lets get the terminology correct by all means...it's a bushing inside the exhaust not a bearing.

As for the swingarm/exhaust bracket there are many names for that. I like to call it a swingarm/exhaust bracket because it is in fact part of the swinging arm assembly once it is bolted on.

I would totally use the same exhaust bushing again. I would use some copper anti seize and be careful re-installing the muffler part of the exhaust but if you can get it to slip in there without damaging the bushing it easily has one more useful tour of duty and possibly more.

Re-installing without catching anything is key! Even if you put a new bushing in there if you don't get the muffler to slide in without catching and tearing it up it may leak. Although it is sometimes way easier to get the muffler to slide in with a new bushing.

I would absolutely order the bushing to have on hand in case the muffler re-install does not go well and then when the muffler re-install goes fine with a little anti-seize I would hide the new bushing from myself somewhere in the garage...
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skids wrote:
As for the swingarm/exhaust bracket there are many names for that. I like to call it a swingarm/exhaust bracket because it is in fact part of the swinging arm assembly once it is bolted on.
No it's not, it's nowhere near the swingarm - the exhaust bracket is solidly part of the engine and transmission. The actual swingarm is right in front of the engine...
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For my own sanity I am going to take Scooter West at their title, and simply add that the point of language is communication:
https://www.scooterwest.com/suspension-arm-gt-gts-gtv-1a001903.html

Regardless, I will carefully try to reinstall the same exhaust bushing (though I ordered a spare that's due for delivery today anyway), and I will install a new rear axle bearing once I get the [large metal piece that the rear axle goes in that the shock and muffler attach to] to come off. Slowly getting more familiar with wrenching on it. It's due for valves and all that and I think my dusty patio and hand tools may still warrant popping it up to the dealer for that.
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Oh wait ya'll don't think I was calling the muffler/exaust pipe the swingarm do you? Pic was for the bushing question, link to video was for how clunky the bearing was.
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jimc wrote:
No it's not, it's nowhere near the swingarm - the exhaust bracket is solidly part of the engine and transmission. The actual swingarm is right in front of the engine...
In my Piaggio Liberty parts catalogue the swingarm is referred to as the "Chassis side swinging arm" and what I like to call the "swingarm/exhaust bracket" is called in the parts catalogue the "Braccio sospensione DX completo" which I take to mean it is the part that completes the swingarm?
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skids wrote:
In my Piaggio Liberty parts catalogue the swingarm is referred to as the "Chassis side swinging arm" and what I like to call the "swingarm/exhaust bracket" is called in the parts catalogue the "Braccio sospensione DX completo" which I take to mean it is the part that completes the swingarm?
"Braccio sospensione DX completo" means "complete right side suspension bracket".

I accept that it's a suspension support bracket on many models, but other models only have a left-hand side or centre shock absorber, and on those the bracket merely supports the exhaust. So calling it an exhaust support bracket is correct for pretty much all models that I know about.
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My post was merely to dog wbdvt (and I hope it was taken in the nature I intended) because I think everyone knows he knows it is a bushing inside the exhaust not a bearing.

I really don't care what we call the exhaust bracket. On a Liberty 50 there is no bracket that connects to the rear wheel it just holds up the exhaust so I think there is less confusion when referring to the one on the Liberty 150 that does connect to the rear wheel (and subsequently on occasion get stuck) as a swingarm/exhaust bracket.

I think swingarm/exhaust bracket is way better than "Braccio sospensione DX completo" but there you have for my bike anyway the "official" term.

I thought it was funny wbdvt started out the post with "First of all lets get the terminology correct" and then proceeded to call a bushing a bearing. I am hoping he thought it was funny the way I called him out on a typo when we all know he knows better.

No offense intended it was meant to come across as good natured ribbing.
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UTC quote
wbdvt wrote:
First let's get terminology correct: that is the exhaust bracket not swing arm

Use lots of penetrating oil and heat the bearing. Patience as it will take time. You can get a bearing puller from Harbor Freight and get it on there and put some pressure. Another way is to put axle nut on and tap with hammer

Eventually you will hear a pop and will come loose.

Replace the bearing in the exhaust bracket
Ok I must be missing something all the previous posts o the bearing vs bushing terminology.

No where did I refer to the exhaust bushing as a bearing. I said the bearing in the exhaust bracket. I know the difference

In fact, I have it on good authority that, if you watch The Big Scoot when released, you will see me on the ground in a gas station parking lot in Navajo Nation on the 2023 Cannonball replacing said exhaust bushing
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No it's me...I am missing that you were referring to the bearing in the bracket and not the bushing in the exhaust.

Original poster asked about (with pictures) replacing the bushing. He said bushing you said bearing.

I misunderstood what you said and thought it was funny.

What's funny is my poor reading comprehension...as Rosanne Rosannadanna would say, nevermind.
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wbdvt wrote:
Ok I must be missing something all the previous posts o the bearing vs bushing terminology.

No where did I refer to the exhaust bushing as a bearing. I said the bearing in the exhaust bracket. I know the difference

In fact, I have it on good authority that, if you watch The Big Scoot when released, you will see me on the ground in a gas station parking lot in Navajo Nation on the 2023 Cannonball replacing said exhaust bushing
So since you have had the experience of an exhaust going bad did it look like from the pictures that one was good to use again?

I always try to reuse the exhaust gaskets my self and I thought it looked good from the pictures. I am a huge fan of copper anti seize and if it doesn't catch going back in, if the exhaust mounts smoothly once it has been anti-seized it is easily replaceable...it comes back out easier which has to happen every time the wheel comes off.

I knew you knew I thought it was a typo and funny. I miss-read for some reason and apologize for any confusion.
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No problem.

I have reused the exhaust bushing but never used any anti-seize when putting an exhaust back together. It is a graphite bushing so I don't needs any and never heard of anyone doing that.

When the bushing goes bad, you will hear it as it sounds and is an exhaust leak. If not taken care of, it can melt the rear brake line. That is a decent amount of work to replace and then purge of air when refilling with brake fluid.

Did the exhaust bracket come off yet?
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How old is the GTS? What's the mileage?
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Bracket has not come off yet - I've been super busy this week and haven't made a run to HF for a puller. As far as age and mileage, it's a 2018, and just over 20k. It's probably been a year since it last came off and TBH the bearing may never have been replaced. I'm not in a huge hurry since I probably won't get a chance to get it to a tire shop until next week anyway.
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As long as you are in HF check to see if they have the exhaust pipe expander. It allows you to expand the pipe and slip the bushing back in much easier.
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This is a good example of why we use and recommend stainless steel bearings for that application. I've broken one of the puller tools trying to get an OEM bearing off, and destroyed a few bearings with a drill just to get them off the axle. Since going to stainless steel, this hasn't been an issue.
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Agree with Motovista. All the bearings I buy from him are SS
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I just ordered the slightly cheaper bearing from Scooter West. Eventually a gallon of penetrating oil and a lifetime of banging on the axle freed it up. 3 Arm puller (and enough huffing and puffing to leave me sore the next day) pushed out the old bearing and seated the new one (with a little anti-sieze that I doubt will help when it's time to replace again). Waiting on the tire now - I should have ordered it sooner but I naively thought someone might have one nearby.
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Back on the road and riding like a dream! I feel better having done it, though the internals (variator, belt, valves) I still might let a dealership handle. I'm just banging away with mostly hand tools in a messy patio. I don't want a family of spiders moving into the header because I ran out of time one night.
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Sorry but I have to weigh in here with my 2 cents or is that my 2 nonsensical anyhow there isn't a single torx head bolt on any modern vespa I think you mean Allen when referring to actual bolt head type for reassembling the swingarm/ exhaust muffler mount that said when dismantling said item remove all bolts necessary but leave the rear axle nut on by a few threads then using four fingers under and behind the swingarm just below said axle nut pull towards you whilst wacking the axle nut with a 2by4 piece of Doug fir and said swingarm should pop off.
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Nitro200 wrote:
Sorry but I have to weigh in here with my 2 cents or is that my 2 nonsensical anyhow there isn't a single torx head bolt on any modern vespa I think you mean Allen when referring to actual bolt head type for reassembling the swingarm/ exhaust muffler mount that said when dismantling said item remove all bolts necessary but leave the rear axle nut on by a few threads then using four fingers under and behind the swingarm just below said axle nut pull towards you whilst wacking the axle nut with a 2by4 piece of Doug fir and said swingarm should pop off.
I'm afraid you're dead wrong. Nearly all Piaggio bikes including Vespas use Torx bolts rather than Allen bolts. This started in 2010...
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jimc wrote:
I'm afraid you're dead wrong. Nearly all Piaggio bikes including Vespas use Torx bolts rather than Allen bolts. This started in 2010...
Jimc is quite correct here - t25 and t40 for this job, to be specific.
Also of note to anyone finding this thread about to pull their wheel: when bolting the wheel back on take care to get the washers under the tone ring before tightening. I didn't on the first one and it crimped the tone ring with it. Had to pull it and hammer it back true. Not apocalyptic but worth avoiding.
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UTC quote
Nitro200 wrote:
I think you mean Allen when referring to actual bolt head type for reassembling the swingarm/ exhaust muffler mount
jimc wrote:
I'm afraid you're dead wrong. Nearly all Piaggio bikes including Vespas use Torx bolts rather than Allen bolts. This started in 2010...
might be some miscommunication or confusion ...

iirc the bolts holding the exhaust to the bracket are torx whereas the bolts holding the bracket to the engine are allen.
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SteelBytes wrote:
might be some miscommunication or confusion ...

iirc the bolts holding the exhaust to the bracket are torx whereas the bolts holding the bracket to the engine are allen.
Yup! t40 for the exhaust/wheel bolts, 6mm allen for the bracket, plus t25 for the speed sensor clips.

Also an 8mm socket for the sensor, a 17 (I think) for the shock, and a 24mm for the axle. I did all these with an adjustable though.
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Trenchleton wrote:
Yup! t40 for the exhaust/wheel bolts, 6mm allen for the bracket, plus t25 for the speed sensor clips.

Also an 8mm socket for the sensor, a 17 (I think) for the shock, and a 24mm for the axle. I did all these with an adjustable though.
Adjustable Torx? ROFL emoticon
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jk_single wrote:
Adjustable Torx? ROFL emoticon
That's why I said an 8mm socket.
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UTC quote
Sorry my bad on the torx/Allen bolts
I have a 2005 gt200 didn't know they started using torx in 2010.
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