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@mjrally avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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@mjrally avatar
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UTC quote
So a new guy got my number and is asking for me to build him a SF motor for his 74 Primavera 125. Owner is a big guy 240 lb (108 kilos). Wants power and still reliability on a middle of the road budget. Wants to keep the 19 carb to save money but it's negotiable. Going to go Vape on the ignition.

What do you guys recommend? Malossi? VMC? Polini?
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Ossessionato
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Ossessionato
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UTC quote
MJRally wrote:
So a new guy got my number and is asking for me to build him a SF motor for his 74 Primavera 125. Owner is a big guy 240 lb (108 kilos). Wants power and still reliability on a middle of the road budget. Wants to keep the 19 carb to save money but it's negotiable. Going to go Vape on the ignition.

What do you guys recommend? Malossi? VMC? Polini?
Big boys club on a budget- I have done just that on the my first VMC135 running the 19.19. some pics for your viewing.
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parallelogramerist
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parallelogramerist
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I would think that transmission gearing would be just as critical as a cylinder kit for a clydesdale rider.
⚠️ Last edited by whodatschrome on UTC; edited 1 time
@108 avatar
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Ossessionato
V range 50s
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Yeah I'd look into the carb and primary before ignition (unless the ignition is DOA)

But to be honest… there's a snowball effect… clutch and gears probably need to be swapped out.
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108 wrote:
Yeah I'd look into the carb and primary before ignition (unless the ignition is DOA)

But to be honest… there's a snowball effect… clutch and gears probably need to be swapped out.
agree. gets into parts creep territory. simply installing a cylinder kit is not going to be the end of it.
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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Given that I'm a 230 lb guy, I'd say that the bigger issue (like the bigger rider) is going to be which Smallie cylinder produces the most torque.

Look at the Egig 170 with a pipe that favors earlier power, maybe the matching Egig Unisex. Plus the Egig crank, so that may be getting beyond the customer's budget, but it would absolutely give him what he needs on a relative budget.

If the gearing needs tweaking, though, that's going to be a new primary shaft, which is $125-175, depending on what you go with. I don't think that'll be necessary, though.
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@mjrally avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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UTC quote
Scoots here and starting the shopping list. I like Gicks VMC 135 idea. The aluminum version is on sale at SIP.

@Gick- what are you planning on for gearing? Leaving it stock or swapping?
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MJRally wrote:
Scoots here and starting the shopping list. I like Gicks VMC 135 idea. The aluminum version is on sale at SIP.

@Gick- what are you planning on for gearing? Leaving it stock or swapping?
went 27/69.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/gearbox-27-69-256-teeth-sip-sport_16330000
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Hooked
Some Vespa, some Yamaha, some Suzuki, some Kawasaki...
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I'd tell the big guy to get a big guy bike. Small frame engines need high revs, clutch slip to get moving, which goes against the problem of breaking stiction. That problem is more easily overcome by large displacement, lower rpm and bigger torque engines. OF COURSE, when money is no object a small displacement 125cc can make big power even for oversized load, but that is not practical or pragmatic for anyone but those obsessed with efficiency.
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@mjrally avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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@mjrally avatar
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That's what I would tell 75% of vespa riders I know. Just buy a motorcycle and get it over with. They want something that can go two up on the freeway for 2 hours with disc brakes and an air ride suspension for $500. Ain't gonna happen.

That said, this guy realizes what he's got and has been realistic of the coming work. He also knows my time costs which has been a nice change of pace.
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MJRally wrote:
That's what I would tell 75% of vespa riders I know. Just buy a motorcycle and get it over with. They want something that can go two up on the freeway for 2 hours with disc brakes and an air ride suspension for $500. Ain't gonna happen.

That said, this guy realizes what he's got and has been realistic of the coming work. He also knows my time costs which has been a nice change of pace.
Their expectation of KTM performance out of a Vespa is always a short coming. they can still dream, i guess. they are usually short time Vespa owners.

The other expectation is not putting more money in it then it's worth.

Welcome to power sports.
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UTC quote
Vape was installed and all lights working now. Stator wires were toast and it was only a matter of time before he lost spark too. Owner likes me and my work and has given me the go ahead for whatever it needs. I'm thinking VMC aluminum cylinder with a 25mm carb and clutch. Keeping the vape and Polini pipe.

Gick, the 27/69 combo is "in arrival" at SIP and might be a while. Penny on your thoughts for the next best in stock combo for a higher top speed for a big guy?
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MJRally wrote:
Vape was installed and all lights working now. Stator wires were toast and it was only a matter of time before he lost spark too. Owner likes me and my work and has given me the go ahead for whatever it needs. I'm thinking VMC aluminum cylinder with a 25mm carb and clutch. Keeping the vape and Polini pipe.

Gick, the 27/69 combo is "in arrival" at SIP and might be a while. Penny on your thoughts for the next best in stock combo for a higher top speed for a big guy?
other manufactures make the 27/69.
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@mjrally avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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UTC quote
GickSpeed wrote:
other manufactures make the 27/69.
They sure do! Scooterhelp gearing chart looks promising
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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UTC quote
MJRally wrote:
They sure do! Scooterhelp gearing chart looks promising
It's less about the speed than the motor's ability to drive it. Does it produce enough horsepower at those RPM's to overcome resistance?
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@mjrally avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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UTC quote
Parts are ordered and it'll be a few weeks. I'm curious to ask, has anyone used the VMC or Malossi short 4th input shafts? I used a DRT once and it was a mess! Taper was bad on it and the clutch wouldn't hold.

Just thinking in case the owner doesn't like the jump from third to fourth.
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
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I have the long 2nd, short 4th Malossi in my Smallie. It went in no issues. Brought the start of power in 4th down so I'm not lugging it at 50 MPH and made 2nd almost long enough to be usable.

SoCal put a DRT (I think) primary in Red and it went...not as well...
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Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
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UTC quote
I used DRT short 4th in my Primavera with no issues and no shimming.
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Molto Verboso
'13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
I'm not a small guy too, almost 100 kg.
I have this SIP(VMC) kit on my PK.
Paired with SHBC 20L, racing crankshaft, SIP 27/69 and short 4th VMC gear tree is perfect commuter that easily can sits 85-90 km/h out of town and have near 100 km/h top speed.
One of advantages that it is not need to cut and deck cases.
VMC also have Kappa - 135cc alu that also not needed case modifying.

On my Special there is also VMC short 4th. And it have issue with seating in the bearing. I was need to use Loctite to make it hold there. AFAIK it is problem of early made x-mas trees. Two years later I bought next one for my PK and it haven't this problem.
MJRally wrote:
the 27/69 combo is "in arrival" at SIP and might be a while.
You can choose any other.


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