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Hooked
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Would you guys choose 93 octane with up to 10% ethanol or 90 octane with no ethanol
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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@jimc avatar
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UTC quote
Whichever is the cheaper! Both are just fine for these engines.
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Vespa Sprint Sport S 125cc
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UTC quote
Ethanol has lower energy density, and so you will go further between fill ups on zero ethanol fuel. When I've done long trips, I've preferred spending the extra money for a bit of extra range.

Ethanol can also attract moisture. Not a problem on a plastic tank like the Vespa, but if you are someone who parks up your Vespa for the winter - I'd run a tank of no ethanol fuel through before it's parked up just to be safe.

Aside from these two very specific scenarios, no problem running 10% ethanol fuel. 10% ethanol is the standard normal fuel in Italy where these engines have been designed.
@steelbytes avatar
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2019 GTS300 Supertech E3 60,000km
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UTC quote
mankite wrote:
Would you guys choose 93 octane with up to 10% ethanol or 90 octane with no ethanol
US or Euro octane?

Also what does the manual say?
@znomit avatar
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LX190 Friday afternoon special, [s]Primavera[/s], S50, too many pushbikes
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UTC quote
91.5 with 5%!
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2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2022 Kymco AK 550
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UTC quote
I try to use Non-Oxy when it is available. I do the same for my Honda Lawnmower and power washer. Although, leaded High Octane works just fine on my Vespa GTS300 Super.

Bob Copeland
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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UTC quote
Bob Copeland wrote:
Although, leaded High Octane works just fine on my Vespa GTS300 Super.
ReallY? Leaded? Poisoner.
Quote:
Bob Copeland
Hmm.
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UTC quote
JakeM wrote:
Ethanol has lower energy density, and so you will go further between fill ups on zero ethanol fuel. When I've done long trips, I've preferred spending the extra money for a bit of extra range.
With 10% ethanol, the energy content is ~3% less than with the full hydrocarbon stuff...and that is a very small difference.

I'm not saying it is impossible to see the impact in miles travelled.
Still, I'd say it takes a great dedication to create excatly similar conditions (wind, altitude differences, accelerations & decelerations etc.) to be able to empirically present the difference Nerd emoticon

I'd go with the cheapest one too, both are OK.
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UTC quote
I use E-0 93 with Stable added in all my small engines including my Liberty.

OFG
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2007 GTS
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UTC quote
Bob Copeland wrote:
I try to use Non-Oxy when it is available. I do the same for my Honda Lawnmower and power washer. Although, leaded High Octane works just fine on my Vespa GTS300 Super.

Bob Copeland
where are you buying LEADED gasoline from?
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UTC quote
E-10 is fairly common here in the US, regardless of the octane rating.

I do tend to use the highest octane available. Sometimes it's 91, 93, or 95. Just depends on where you're at when refueling.

I have used E-10 87 octane sparingly when there was no other choice. I likely got lower fuel mileage on that tank, but there were no long term adverse effects.

Pure gas, with no ethanol would be preferred, but it can be tough to find in certain locales. Might try to search on this site to see what's available near you.

https://www.pure-gas.org/
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GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
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UTC quote
Bob Copeland wrote:
leaded High Octane works just fine
Are you getting leaded gas at the airport?

The only motors that still use it that I know of is in light general aviation.

I'm lucky that I can get alcohol free 93 octane. It's pretty expensive, though.
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UTC quote
'The final holdout, Algeria, used up the last of its stockpile of leaded gasoline in July, 2021.'

Algeria and Copelandia Razz emoticon

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/30/1031429212/the-world-has-finally-stopped-using-leaded-gasoline-algeria-used-the-last-stockp
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Molto Verboso
Piaggio Beverly 300 ie - 2012
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UTC quote
RRider wrote:
With 10% ethanol, the energy content is ~3% less than with the full hydrocarbon stuff...and that is a very small difference.

I'm not saying it is impossible to see the impact in miles travelled.
Still, I'd say it takes a great dedication to create excatly similar conditions (wind, altitude differences, accelerations & decelerations etc.) to be able to empirically present the difference Nerd emoticon

I'd go with the cheapest one too, both are OK.
I agree with that.

The first year I did run on 5% ethanol in winter and on 10% ethanol in summer.
I keep track of all my tanking and mileage, and I could not see a significant benefit in fuel consumption on 5% ethanol. And in winter I do not have long pauses here in our relative mild climate.

So already for a few years I run the BV on 10% ethanol all the time.
The engine is designed for it and it is cheaper.
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
vintage red matthew wrote:
(...)
I'm lucky that I can get alcohol free 93 octane. It's pretty expensive, though.
I do not know about US rules, but in the EU fuel E5 is maximum 5% ethanol, so it can also be 0%. There are some brands that claim they offer ethanol free E5. Also quite expensive compared to E10.

E10 is minimum 5% and maximum 10% ethanol.
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UTC quote
RRider wrote:
With 10% ethanol, the energy content is ~3% less than with the full hydrocarbon stuff...and that is a very small difference.

I'm not saying it is impossible to see the impact in miles travelled.
Still, I'd say it takes a great dedication to create excatly similar conditions (wind, altitude differences, accelerations & decelerations etc.) to be able to empirically present the difference Nerd emoticon

I'd go with the cheapest one too, both are OK.
Based on my average mpg, 3% is an extra 8 miles / 12km per tank.

It's not much, but on days when I've gone on long distance European adventures - I've liked knowing I have that tiny bit of extra range. I also fill the fuel up until it's completely level with the top of the filler neck, but I know that's not possible on the American models with the EVAP system.
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UTC quote
Bob Copeland wrote:
leaded High Octane works just fine on my Vespa GTS300 Super.
I'm going with a typo. C'mon the man's got cracked ribs. You say crazy stuff with pain.
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UTC quote
JakeM wrote:
Based on my average mpg, 3% is an extra 8 miles / 12km per tank.

It's not much, but on days when I've gone on long distance European adventures - I've liked knowing I have that tiny bit of extra range. I also fill the fuel up until it's completely level with the top of the filler neck, but I know that's not possible on the American models with the EVAP system.
How much more do you pay for those 8 extra miles? What's the price difference? Here in the US, it's about 50 cents to a dollar a gallon difference.
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Motovista wrote:
How much more do you pay for those 8 extra miles? What's the price difference? Here in the US, it's about 50 cents to a dollar a gallon difference.
Current U.K. prices are:

E10 fuel = $7.17 per us gallon
Low ethanol = $7.41 per us gallon

I noticed the fuel prices in France / Italy were about 20% higher than England - and I'm guessing you're already shocked at the english prices ROFL emoticon

This isn't something I do daily, but when I'm doing long distance adventures and about 200+ miles a day, it can sometimes be the difference between filling up only once per day, or having to add in another stop which disrupts the routine / rhythm.
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
JakeM wrote:
Current U.K. prices are:

E10 fuel = $7.17 per us gallon
Low ethanol = $7.41 per us gallon

I noticed the fuel prices in France / Italy were about 20% higher than England - and I'm guessing you're already shocked at the english prices ROFL emoticon
(...)
Current Belgian prices, that is maximum prices. For E10 you will find cheaper everywhere. For E5 there is little price reduction in practice. E5 volume is much smaller.

E10 = $7.13 per US gallon
E5 = $7.51 per US gallon

Price reduction for E10 can be easily $0.5 per US gallon.
So in practice you come close to $1 per US gallon price benefit for E10 over E5.

Prices in France are a bit cheaper than in Belgium, some 5% lower.
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PeterCC wrote:
Current Belgian prices, that is maximum prices. For E10 you will find cheaper everywhere. For E5 there is little price reduction in practice. E5 volume is much smaller.

E10 = $7.13 per US gallon
E5 = $7.51 per US gallon

Price reduction for E10 can be easily $0.5 per US gallon.
So in practice you come close to $1 per US gallon price benefit for E10 over E5.

Prices in France are a bit cheaper than in Belgium, some 5% lower.
Seems it's dropped a bit now then.

U.K. E10 petrol is currently averaging £1.44 a litre this week (1,70€).

France is showing as 1,83€ a litre E10 average this week.

Might just have been where I was stopping, but most places charged around 2€ a litre (mostly E5) when I rode through France last year, and then the price dropped a bit once I reached Italy.
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UTC quote
I choose 90 octane ethanol free.
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UTC quote
Years ago I had a P200. In 1984 I drove it with my wife through France from the Uk on our honeymoon.

I accidentally filled it with diesel having misunderstood the translation on the pump. I didn't understand why I was getting funny looks from the other drivers and the gas attendant.

We drove off, and you know what? That little Vespa went faster with a lot of smoke coming from the exhaust. Then I realized what I had done! I topped it up with the proper stuff at the next station.

Vespa's are amazing machines! We drove it to our destination in the south of France and back again with no problems.
Tom
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UTC quote
Anything 91 and above. I don't bother looking for ethanol free.
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Tom1 wrote:
Years ago I had a P200. In 1984 I drove it with my wife through France from the Uk on our honeymoon.

I accidentally filled it with diesel having misunderstood the translation on the pump. I didn't understand why I was getting funny looks from the other drivers and the gas attendant.

We drove off, and you know what? That little Vespa went faster with a lot of smoke coming from the exhaust. Then I realized what I had done! I topped it up with the proper stuff at the next station.

Vespa's are amazing machines! We drove it to our destination in the south of France and back again with no problems.
Tom
That is an amazing story.

At that time in France dieselfuel was called "gazole".
I understand the confusion with the american "gasoline".

The fuel tank of the P200, I guess, was not empty when you filled it up?

Then you had a gasoline-diesel mixture in your tank and luckily for you there was enough gasoline in the mixture to start the burning of the fuel with the spark and the diesel followed.
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UTC quote
Bob Copeland wrote:
I try to use Non-Oxy when it is available. I do the same for my Honda Lawnmower and power washer. Although, leaded High Octane works just fine on my Vespa GTS300 Super.

Bob Copeland
Still telling the pump jockey to fill'er up with ethyl?
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