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@v125smframe avatar
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'64' VMA1 Allstate 125
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'64' VMA1 Allstate 125
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UTC quote
A brief history of how I got to this gear selection problem. After splitting the case to replace a damaged piston, the gear assembly was never disassembled. When it was removed from the casing, it was placed to the side for later assembly. Now, here's my problem. I should add, that there were no shifting issues before the decision to change out the piston. Following most install videos, tech manuals, and forums, Neutral gear at idle will inadvertently jump into 2nd gear. Plus, the batwing is not moving to 4th gear.

Hoping not to split the case, can the shifting mechanism be adjusted correctly?
@geeklion avatar
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The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
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The Dude
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UTC quote
What Vespa model are you working on?
UTC

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
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UTC quote
Gear selector not hooked in correctly?
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@v125smframe avatar
UTC

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'64' VMA1 Allstate 125
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UTC quote
GeekLion wrote:
What Vespa model are you working on?
It's a VMA1121.1cc, 1964 Sears Allstate. I have the engine out and mounted on a makeshift engine stand. I am hand-turning the wheel hub and switching through the gears when I discovered the problem.
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@v125smframe avatar
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'64' VMA1 Allstate 125
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UTC quote
Jack221 wrote:
Gear selector not hooked in correctly?
Is there a procedure to do it correctly?
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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UTC quote
Editorial Opinion: you should have replaced the cruciform while you had the gearbox out.

If the motor is in the bike, you probably have the gear shift cables both mis-aligned, preventing reaching 4th, and too tight, causing both binding making it harder to shift as well as making accidental gear jumps more likely.

Throw in the cruciform you have replaced anyway, and, well...

What top end are you running? Stock or kitted?
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Jet Eye Master
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UTC quote
V125smframe wrote:
Is there a procedure to do it correctly?
This is my way. Worked for me over the last 40 years!
Turn the batwing to just past 4th gear, like gear 4.5
Spin the rear wheel and pull out the rod until in 1st gear
Fit the gasket
Put the selector just over on the front bolt.
Look underneath and hook the gear arm in the rod
Line up the rear bolt and jiggle it on the studs
Slap the selector box with your palm until fully home
Bolt up
Put in neutral and spin the rear wheel
Listen for clicking
If there is any clicking, an extra gasket usually fixes it.
@chandlerman avatar
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Lucky
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UTC quote
Except he's got a smallie, Jack. VMA1T

For a largeframe, though, I 110% agree with your methodology.
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Jet Eye Master
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Jet Eye Master
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
Except he's got a smallie, Jack. VMA1T

For a largeframe, though, I 110% agree with your methodology.
I thought a US, 1964 Sears Allstate, was a largeframe. Something like a euro VBB
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Ossessionato
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UTC quote
V125smframe wrote:
It's a VMA1121.1cc, 1964 Sears Allstate. I have the engine out and mounted on a makeshift engine stand. I am hand-turning the wheel hub and switching through the gears when I discovered the problem.
It's not an Allstate, it's just a Sears or Sears 125. VMA's should also be 66/67. National colloquialism for these bikes as "Sears Bluebadge."
UTC

Jet Eye Master
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Jet Eye Master
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UTC quote
Now imagining it won't select 4th because it's actually a 3 gear model
@chandlerman avatar
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Lucky
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UTC quote
Jack221 wrote:
Now imagining it won't select 4th because it's actually a 3 gear model
ROFL emoticon

That would do it if that's the case, all right.
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@v125smframe avatar
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'64' VMA1 Allstate 125
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UTC quote
Jack221 wrote:
This is my way. Worked for me over the last 40 years!
Turn the batwing to just past 4th gear, like gear 4.5
Spin the rear wheel and pull out the rod until in 1st gear
Fit the gasket
Put the selector just over on the front bolt.
Look underneath and hook the gear arm in the rod
Line up the rear bolt and jiggle it on the studs
Slap the selector box with your palm until fully home
Bolt up
Put in neutral and spin the rear wheel
Listen for clicking
If there is any clicking, an extra gasket usually fixes it.
OP
@v125smframe avatar
UTC

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'64' VMA1 Allstate 125
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UTC quote
Please notice the badge in the photo...its an Allstate! That badge was on the front shield and securely mounted by the manufacturer. The year seems to jump between 64 and the early 70's. I have never found an answer to the actual year.
It's an Allstate!
It's an Allstate!
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@v125smframe avatar
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'64' VMA1 Allstate 125
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
Editorial Opinion: you should have replaced the cruciform while you had the gearbox out.

If the motor is in the bike, you probably have the gear shift cables both mis-aligned, preventing reaching 4th, and too tight, causing both binding making it harder to shift as well as making accidental gear jumps more likely.

Throw in the cruciform you have replaced anyway, and, well...

What top end are you running? Stock or kitted?
Tough decision but decided to keep it stock. The cruciform did not show or indicate that a new one was necessary.
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'64' VMA1 Allstate 125
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
ROFL emoticon

That would do it if that's the case, all right.
It has 4 gears forward, 1 neutral, and 2 feet for reverse. LOL!
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@v125smframe avatar
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'64' VMA1 Allstate 125
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UTC quote
Jack, your time was well spent and the procedure worked and fixed my problem. You're the man!

In addition, the swivel arm has a high side measurement and a level measurement across the shifting box...mine needed to be rotated to the level measurement. I had installed mine the opposite way.
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Ossessionato
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UTC quote
It looks like a large frame though. Weren't older models 3 speed?
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Hooked
1965 Allstate, 1979 Rally 200
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UTC quote
Are you sure it doesn't say vna not vma?
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
If it is a '64, it should have "VA13T" stamped on the chassis rib underneath the glovebox. I have a '65 carcass and it has "VA14T" stamped there.

According to ScooterHelp, it's a 4-speed:

https://www.scooterhelp.com/scooters/allstate.788.94331.html
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'64' VMA1 Allstate 125
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UTC quote
dsmith181 wrote:
Are you sure it doesn't say vna not vma?
The frame stamp is; VNB5M
The Haynes book states; VMA1
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V125smframe wrote:
Please notice the badge in the photo...its an Allstate! That badge was on the front shield and securely mounted by the manufacturer. The year seems to jump between 64 and the early 70's. I have never found an answer to the actual year.
That is not a VMA. It is a VNB.
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'64' VMA1 Allstate 125
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UTC quote
az_slynch wrote:
If it is a '64, it should have "VA13T" stamped on the chassis rib underneath the glovebox. I have a '65 carcass and it has "VA14T" stamped there.

According to ScooterHelp, it's a 4-speed:

https://www.scooterhelp.com/scooters/allstate.788.94331.html
Yes, it's a 4 speed.
Plus the frame stamp is VNB5M
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@v125smframe avatar
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'64' VMA1 Allstate 125
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UTC quote
V125smframe wrote:
Yes, it's a 4 speed.
Plus the frame stamp is VNB5M
This link is the closest I've seen to identifying my model of Allstate.

https://www.scooterhelp.com/scooters/VNB5T.125.html
UTC

Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
V125smframe wrote:
The frame stamp is; VNB5M
The Haynes book states; VMA1
Allstates didn't use PIAGGIO frame numbers. They had their own like stated above, would start with VAxxxx
Vespas would have the VNBxx stampings on the frame.

Allstates and Vespa had both the same engine stampings though. Ie VNA1, VNA2, VNB1, VNB2
I don't think I've seen an Allstate that had an engine past a VNB2 from the factory though but I'm no expert.
UTC

Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
V125smframe wrote:
Please notice the badge in the photo...its an Allstate! That badge was on the front shield and securely mounted by the manufacturer. The year seems to jump between 64 and the early 70's. I have never found an answer to the actual year.
Also that badge is a reproduction. Not original. Here's an OG one to compare which is a much thinner casting. I also have 2 reproductions and when side by side they are noticeably different.
Original Allstate badge. Don't mind the pop rivets, they're not original obviously. Needed them in a pinch.
Original Allstate badge. Don't mind the pop rivets, they're not original obviously. Needed them in a pinch.
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'64' VMA1 Allstate 125
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UTC quote
I may stand corrected.
⚠️ Last edited by V125smframe on UTC; edited 1 time
UTC

Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1996
Location: Philadelphia
 
Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
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UTC quote
Must be the angle of the pic then. Looks way thicker than mine.
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@v125smframe avatar
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'64' VMA1 Allstate 125
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'64' VMA1 Allstate 125
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UTC quote
FridayMatinee wrote:
Must be the angle of the pic then. Looks way thicker than mine.
Yours being thin would likely be original. Your looks definitely handmade with fine tooling. Mine does look cookie-cutter and sloppy.
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