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Hi,

I have recently bought used 2020 Gts 300hpe, love the bike but I realized that my rear brake doesn't work. Took it to my Vespa dealer and they quoted me $2200 for reaper.

Does anyone have experience with ASB control unit and is there an option for rebuilding it, apparently that is the issue.

This bike has less then 900mi which is crazy to have that problem, mi my mind, maybe I am mistaking. Bike was a part of recall and dealer allegedly addressed recall before selling of the bike.

Do you think that I should contact Vespa USA, please help?
UTC

Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 300
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your first post, even if the occasion is very annoying.

Do I understand you correctly that you recently bought the Vespa from a dealer who did the brake recall (directly?) before the sale. Now another dealer has discovered a defect in the ABS control unit shortly after the purchase. Correct?

Please describe the fault in detail: What happens/doesn't happen when you operate the left brake lever? Noises? Vibrations? ABS indicator light? etc.
How long ago did you buy the Vespa?
What does the dealer who sold the Vespa say about this? (In Europe, a dealer is also liable for defects occurring in the first 12 months after the sale of a used vehicle to a private individual. Is there a comparable liability in the USA?)

When the ignition is switched on, the ABS indicator light should flash until 5 kph (3.11 mph) is reached. The indicator lamp should then go out. In the event of a fault with the ABS system, the ABS indicator lamp lights up permanently, BUT the braking system continues to function as if no ABS system had been installed at all.

The ABS control unit costs approx. 1000€ in Europe (A new control unit must, however, be taught/programmed to the vehicle by a Vespa dealer) There are companies here that offer to repair ABS control units for around €400.
⚠️ Last edited by GermanGTSDriver on UTC; edited 1 time
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UTC quote
If I were faced with a bill like that I think I would investigate whether you could just toss the ABS and do without?

In the case of the original poster, I would start with a talk to the sellers and depending upon what I heard, a lawyer.
UTC

Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 300
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Grunion wrote:
I know nothing about that model of scooter but I am disappointed that the 300 seems so unreliable.
Could we first try to narrow down the problem of the OP before bashing here?
Grunion wrote:
In the case of the original poster, I would start with a talk to the sellers
The only useful part of your post...
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UTC quote
Thanks for welcoming me here.
Sorry guys, maybe I caused misunderstanding.
Quote:
Do I understand you correctly that you recently bought the Vespa from a dealer who did the brake recall (directly?) before the sale. Now another dealer has discovered a defect in the ABS control unit shortly after the purchase. Correct?

Please describe the fault in detail: What happens/doesn't happen when you operate the left brake lever? Noises? Vibrations? ABS indicator light? etc.
How long ago did you buy the Vespa?
Didn't buy from a dealer, but I contact that dealer when my dealer didn't want to fix issue throught recall and they told me that recall was done. I am of opinion that my issues is because of that recall, having in mind that bike was not used, at least base on the millage (less than 900mi).

My left brake was stuck, not able to press it at all. after dealer bleed the system (that is what they told me) now brake is completely soft. I can press it all the way and nothing happens. My front works just fine and ABS light switches off after 5kmh. No lights ON my speed, check engine, ABS, nothing is ON. That is why I am confused.

I bought bike two months ago and already that bike was 5 weeks at mechanic shop. I just want to fix it, as cheep as possible, and be able to ride it. summer is just that long.

thanks all.
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Molto Verboso
Piaggio Beverly 300 ie - 2012
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UTC quote
There are very strange things in your posts.

You state it is a 2020 GTS300 with only 900miles on the odo.
That means it is an almost brand new GTS 300.

Just a question. What did you pay for it?
Do not give us the exact amount, but how does that amount refer to what is normally asked for a 2020 GTS 300 with very low mileage in your area?
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@chararapan avatar
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Quote:
Just a question. What did you pay for it?
Do not give us the exact amount, but how does that amount refer to what is normally asked for a 2020 GTS 300 with very low mileage in your area?
I have paid amount similar to what is goes for that year and mileages, double checked, and to be frank I don't know why is that relevant for my problem?
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UTC quote
Chararapan wrote:
after dealer bleed the system (that is what they told me)
probably should get a refund for that
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UTC quote
So how many different shops have looked at this issue? And they are factory trained Vespa technicians? Sounds to me like you need a second opinion if you haven't done so already. There is no way the ABS unit should be bad with only 900 miles on the scoot.
UTC

Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Chararapan wrote:
now brake is completely soft. I can press it all the way and nothing happens.
Is the brake fluid level OK? (Sight glasses on the front of the handlebar fairing)
What happens if you pump the brake several times?
Fix the brake in the pulled state overnight, e.g. with a cable tie, a tensioning strap or a Velcro strap. Does the feeling change the next day?
Chararapan wrote:
ABS light switches off after 5kmh.
In my opinion, this indicates that the ABS control unit is not defective.
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UTC quote
I'm not sure how you get to $2,200 to repair a rear brake on an ABS vespa. Had you dealt with them prior to buying this bike? It sounds a little like they're trying to discourage you from bringing your bike to them.
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UTC quote
Motovista wrote:
I'm not sure how you get to $2,200 to repair a rear brake on an ABS vespa. Had you dealt with them prior to buying this bike? It sounds a little like they're trying to discourage you from bringing your bike to them.
half for the unit which iirc are very expensive and half for several hours of expensive labour?
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Grunion wrote:
In the case of the original poster, I would start with a talk to the sellers and depending upon what I heard, a lawyer.
Unless you have an attorney who can repair ABS units on Vespa GTS models, that's one way to have less money and a bike that's still broken.
⚠️ Last edited by Motovista on UTC; edited 1 time
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SteelBytes wrote:
half for the unit which iirc are very expensive and half for several hours of expensive labour?
If Piaggio pays an hour for the recall, the odds are it's a two hour job. The reason the Dealer won't fix it under the recall is that he can't, if it's already been repaired under the recall. He won't get paid for it.
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UTC quote
see you've also posted on reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/Vespa/comments/1dq23c9/2020_gts_300_rear_brake_doesnt_work/

you said over there
Quote:
I was told by the shop that they tried with new master cylinder and that this didn't work
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UTC quote
SteelBytes wrote:
How would they try with a new master cylinder? A shop isn't going to replace the master cylinder, bleed the system, then take it off and put the old one back on.
Chararapan wrote:
I just want to fix it, as cheep as possible...
I think expressing this to the dealer, after trying to get them to fix it for free, is why the service writer quoted $2200. It's a polite way of saying, "go away."
OP
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Quote:
How would they try with a new master cylinder? A shop isn't going to replace the master cylinder, bleed the system, then take it off and put the old one back on.
That is something that was suspicious to me too.
Quote:
I think expressing this to the dealer, after trying to get them to fix it for free, is why the service writer quoted $2200. It's a polite way of saying, "go away."
The problem is that they didn't write the quote, they just allegedly did the work. When I went to pick up my bike they told me that I have to pay $2200, although I didn't approved anything.

To top it all they "putted" everything back from 5pm(shop works until 6pm) to 11am (shop opens 10am) next day.
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UTC quote
SteelBytes wrote:
probably should get a refund for that
didn't pay anything for any "work" that was done. Nothing was fixed
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UTC quote
bluecloud wrote:
So how many different shops have looked at this issue? And they are factory trained Vespa technicians? Sounds to me like you need a second opinion if you haven't done so already. There is no way the ABS unit should be bad with only 900 miles on the scoot.
One factory trained service and one independent. In DMV (DC, Maryland, Virginia) where I live, we have only one official Vespa shop.
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UTC quote
GermanGTSDriver wrote:
Is the brake fluid level OK? (Sight glasses on the front of the handlebar fairing)
What happens if you pump the brake several times?
Fix the brake in the pulled state overnight, e.g. with a cable tie, a tensioning strap or a Velcro strap. Does the feeling change the next day?



In my opinion, this indicates that the ABS control unit is not defective.
Brake fluid looks ok.
Will try both things and let you know.
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I'm confused ...

Did they actually replace the master cylinder?

Did they actually replace the ABS control unit?

Have you payed anything?

Have you asked them to show you the old ABS and/or master cylinder to show that they actually did replaced and not lie?

An invoices should have cost break down of parts and labour (and tax if applicable) else in many places you won't have to pay it.
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Quote:
I'm confused ...

Did they actually replace the master cylinder?

Did they actually replace the ABS control unit?

Have you payed anything?

Have you asked them to show you the old ABS and/or master cylinder to show that they actually did replaced and not lie?

An invoices should have cost break down of parts and labour (and tax if applicable) else in many places you won't have to pay it.
No I didn't pay for anything, as I already wrote.

1. shop:
Official Vespa shop asked for payment of $2200 for works that I didn't approve, so I declined to pay. Then they allegedly put everything back as it was.

2.shop:
Independent shop quoted just bleed at the beginning and after they did bleed told me that it is ABS unit.
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For anyone who's worked at a dealership of any sort, this story just keeps getting better. I find it hard to believe any good service manager at a franchise shop would let the shop do $2200 worth of work without a signed work order and big deposit up front. Not only that, but there might be laws against working on someone's bike without their approval and telling them they owe you $2200. And if they put it back the way it was while you waited, it sounds like they didn't do very much for that $2200. Now they've got a bunch of parts they ate, and a technician who didn't get paid for his/her work.
If you go back in and there's a new service writer working, you might be right, but I've never heard of a shop run like this.
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Quote:
For anyone who's worked at a dealership of any sort, this story just keeps getting better. I find it hard to believe any good service manager at a franchise shop would let the shop do $2200 worth of work without a signed work order and big deposit up front. Not only that, but there might be laws against working on someone's bike without their approval and telling them they owe you $2200. And if they put it back the way it was while you waited, it sounds like they didn't do very much for that $2200. Now they've got a bunch of parts they ate, and a technician who didn't get paid for his/her work.
If you go back in and there's a new service writer working, you might be right, but I've never heard of a shop run like this.
I am sad to say this but this forum is getting a bit toxic for me. Instead of getting help or getting answers I am being questioned and accused of making up of the story.

Not sure that I should do this, but since I was questioned, in lack of the better expression. See below print screen from official service that wanted to charge me $2200, stating that they put everything back to original condition.


I would appreciate if someone can help me fixing this issue, with mechanical advices, for legal advices I am good.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
UTC

Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 300
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Back to the Problem…
Chararapan wrote:
Brake fluid looks ok.
Will try both things and let you know.
And?

Again:

In my opinion: If ABS light switches at more than 5kmh, this indicates that the ABS control unit is not defective.
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GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
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UTC quote
Chararapan wrote:
I am sad to say this but this forum is getting a bit toxic for me. Instead of getting help or getting answers I am being questioned and accused of making up of the story.
I have read this post carefully and with interest. It sounds to me like you are not getting the full story from the repair shop. You are being questioned by others not because they don't believe you, but because what the dealer did and said doesn't make much sense.

If I were you, I would be tempted to start all over and working with a qualified dealer (a different one) to affect the needed repair. Fortunately you are not actually into major money yet. You want to work with someone who will actually diagnose the problem (in writing) and estimate the needed repairs (parts and labor, in writing). And if there was a problem with the previous warranty repair, perhaps this dealer would help you work with Piaggio on a resolution. I realize working with a dealer in a different town will be a bit of a pain, but you have quite a bit of money in that scooter and need a reliable repair, so ..........
UTC

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UTC quote
Chararapan wrote:
I am sad to say this but this forum is getting a bit toxic for me. Instead of getting help or getting answers I am being questioned and accused of making up of the story.
No, we're just trying to figure out what happened, your posts are somewhat confusing. Sounds like:

1) original issue was inoperative brake with firm lever no movement.

2) took it to a Vespa Dealer who claimed they fixed it with an ABS unit but did so without authorization so you had them remove the parts. Lever now goes to the bar without resistance.

3) took it to an independent who attempted to bleed the system without success and rendered same verdict as Dealer, ABS unit. Lever still goes to the bar without resistance.

Troubleshooting:

1) in order for original issue to occur something had to have been mechanically stuck or an orifice blocked. If this were internal to the ABS unit it could very well be your problem and not unreasonable on a low mileage bike. Question is, could this occur and system still pass self-check?

2) lever is now soft because system was open between master and ABS unit and system cannot be bled because of blockage? OR lever is now soft because of air in the system?

3) question for your independent, did he get flow through the system when attempting to bleed? If not, likely confirms blockage.

Next steps:

1) if you have flow through the system another attempt at bleeding the system is probably in order, preferably by an experienced Vespa tech, which unfortunately is not always the case at a Dealer.

2) get Piaggio corporate involved? Recall was only to bleed the system, so if it was done or not is moot at this point except that it may have caused the original issue. Could performing the recall have introduced contamination into the system? Worth a try, you have nothing to lose.
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@chararapan avatar
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UTC quote
Quote:
And?

Again:

In my opinion: If ABS light switches at more than 5kmh, this indicates that the ABS control unit is not defective.
Tried and nothing changed.
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@chararapan avatar
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UTC quote
Quote:
No, we're just trying to figure out what happened, your posts are somewhat confusing. Sounds like:

1) original issue was inoperative brake with firm lever no movement.

2) took it to a Vespa Dealer who claimed they fixed it with an ABS unit but did so without authorization so you had them remove the parts. Lever now goes to the bar without resistance.

3) took it to an independent who attempted to bleed the system without success and rendered same verdict as Dealer, ABS unit. Lever still goes to the bar without resistance.
Thanks for this post, you summarized problem perfectly well.

Quote:
Troubleshooting:

1) in order for original issue to occur something had to have been mechanically stuck or an orifice blocked. If this were internal to the ABS unit it could very well be your problem and not unreasonable on a low mileage bike. Question is, could this occur and system still pass self-check?

2) lever is now soft because system was open between master and ABS unit and system cannot be bled because of blockage? OR lever is now soft because of air in the system?

3) question for your independent, did he get flow through the system when attempting to bleed? If not, likely confirms blockage.
what I did now I took my scooter to new independent guy and will see what he will say. will keep you posted.
Quote:
2) get Piaggio corporate involved? Recall was only to bleed the system, so if it was done or not is moot at this point except that it may have caused the original issue. Could performing the recall have introduced contamination into the system? Worth a try, you have nothing to lose.
once new guy tells me what is an issue will build a case and contact Piaggio corporate. you are right I have nothing to lose.
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