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UTC

Member
VNB5T - 1964 Vespa Sears Allstate
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Location: Ohio
 
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VNB5T - 1964 Vespa Sears Allstate
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Location: Ohio
UTC quote
Looking at a 1964 sears Allstate in Ohio. List is $3350, gonna try to talk them down to $3000. Is that a good price? What questions should I ask him and what should I look for? This is a last second post but we meet in 3 hours. Here's the post from FB and hopefully some pics
Quote:
1964 Vespa Allstate. Older nut and bolt restoration (by me - not an imported bodge job). In great running condition.
Body: sandblasted, primed and painted/clear coat.
Engine: complete rebuild - new bearings, seals, cruciform and gaskets. Motor was upgraded to 150cc with a Vespa VBB top end, and a 20/20 Dellorto carb.
New wiring loom and all cables. Front fork upgraded to VBB style with damper, new springs/ shocks front and rear. New brakes front and rear
Clean Ohio Title in my name. If it's up, it's available. Message me if you have any questions. Great running vintage Vespa.
Thanks! Hopefully this kicks my butt into gear to fix up the inoperative 1964 Allstate I have.

Also is the piaggio badge in the pics significant? My Allstate doesn't have it.
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@qascooter avatar
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
There is a big dent/crease in the back end on the engine side. 2nd to last pic. THAT would have me a bit concerned.

Also, does everything work? Lights/brake light/horn/all switches/speedo?
Who did the resto - do they have pics of resto? (Love MV for that!)
What's the story of the scoot?
When was the engine rebuilt? Who did it? Is it broken in? a few hundred miles?

Good luck!
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UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
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UTC quote
Lots of little tells that this was not done by someone who actually knows Vespas. It may not be a bodge (shiny, but dangerous), but it's not a true restoration, either.

e.g.
- The VBB fork (he owns it, but the pogo stick fork is part of what makes an Allstate an Allstate)
- cap nuts on the floor rails rather than peened rivets
- weirdly elongated-looking horncast
- no center matt or center rails
- crappy job of fitting the floor rails (big gaps at the curve of the legshield)
- bolt-on legshield trim
- the afore-mentioned big-ass dent in the frame
- The floorboard looks like it might be bent on the left side between the centerstand and the legshield.
- I call bullshit on the new wiring harness, unless he means that it was new when it was originally manufactured long, long ago (look at it in the engine closeup).

Not to mention the fact that it's been sitting somewhere picking up garage rash since either 2013 or 2018 (can't tell with the bolt through the year on the license plate), so the motor may or may not actually be in decent shape at this point.

The tires will definitely all have to be replaced, along with most other visible rubber bits (floor rail rubber, which is a miserable task), brake pedal rubber, etc.

That bike is *at least* $1,000 overpriced, and that's not knowing the actual mechanical condition, but I'd assume it's not nearly as good as the seller represents based just on those photos.
UTC

Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
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Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
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Posts: 1994
Location: Philadelphia
UTC quote
The PIAGGIO badge is insignificant in that Allstates never had them. That was added later by someone.
That's over priced. By quite a bit like mentioned above.

That rear end would steer me away.
OP
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Member
VNB5T - 1964 Vespa Sears Allstate
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UTC quote
Thanks. It kind of breaks my heart that it's not a good buy. He posted a video of it kicking over and revving up, sounds like other allstates I've heard. I'll drive it today but if it was you guys, you'd pass? We aren't looking very hard, this just happened to fall in our lap on Facebook marketplace. I did notice the rubber in the rails being just completely trashed. Dang it.
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VNB5T - 1964 Vespa Sears Allstate
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UTC quote
He also said he did the work. He's a teacher and in the summer he said he paints to keep busy. Not sure if his mechanical background.
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Lucky
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UTC quote
Cforst513 wrote:
Thanks. It kind of breaks my heart that it's not a good buy. He posted a video of it kicking over and revving up, sounds like other allstates I've heard. I'll drive it today but if it was you guys, you'd pass? We aren't looking very hard, this just happened to fall in our lap on Facebook marketplace. I did notice the rubber in the rails being just completely trashed. Dang it.
I wouldn't even bother looking at it, but you do you.
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Member
VNB5T - 1964 Vespa Sears Allstate
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UTC quote
I joined this group back in 2012 when I took possession of my father's 1964 Allstate, but trying to get it restored has hit some financial roadblocks until now. Assuming that the one that I posted about, in the pictures, was done well and up to your standards, is $3000 an agreeable price for something like a sears Allstate or is that still pretty high? I need to do more research on this site and start reading about trends and stuff like that but just off the cuff do you think that this would have been a good buy had you not noticed all of those glaring issues?
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External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

Massive hit (yellow), the curve (white) should follow the natural line of the arch.
Green shows a thick bondo layer imo.

Not properly repaired !

If you can get a serious discount why not, as long as you are able to properly repair it yourself, otherwise economicaly speaking it is not a bargain !

That added to what Chamberman wrote, that is a no no for me.

I wonder what you could discover under that paint...
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Lucky
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UTC quote
If someone has an all original Allstate with original paint in good shape, that might be a $3,000 bike.

What we have here is more like a $1,000 bike, and that assumes you know how to do all the work and don't mind doing it yourself.

Given the obvious body damage on both sides of the frame, I'd assume the frame is bent and this either a significant repair effort with uncertain results, or a complete write-off, depending on what's under the bondo.

That paint is going to get beat up pretty good in the repair process, so it's of no value. The motor will most likely need new seals sooner than later, and who knows how long the points will last.
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VNB5T - 1964 Vespa Sears Allstate
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UTC quote
Damn. You guys are GOOD. Thank you for your candor
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Lucky
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UTC quote
Cforst513 wrote:
Damn. You guys are GOOD. Thank you for your candor
As someone once said, "those NSM guys play rough!" 🤣🤣🤣

I'm just glad you asked us what we thought before you posted a "look at my new Vespa!" thread, then got the same responses.

There's no malice on our part, but even when we try to pull our punches, people can get pretty butthurt.
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Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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UTC quote
Good on you for doing some research and asking here first before you got too serious. That said, the bike may be just an amateur resto that runs fine if the owner built it for himself and knows his stuff mechanically. Let us know how it rides... And do you have previos experience riding these?
Cforst513 wrote:
I joined this group back in 2012 when I took possession of my father's 1964 Allstate, but trying to get it restored has hit some financial roadblocks until now.
...
Let's see your AllState! What's the problem with it? Does the motor turn over? Is it essentially all there? Forget about 'restoring' it for now, just get it running and riding safely this summer & fall, then go from there! Spend your 3K on it next winter after you get to know it.

Edit: I found your old post about your AllState. 1964 or 1965 Allstate?
Sounds like you got it running some time ago but then snapped the clutch cable? Easy fix with our help...
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chandlerman wrote:
I'm just glad you asked us what we thought before you posted a "look at my new Vespa!" thread, then got the same responses.
This!
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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V oodoo wrote:
Good on you for doing some research and asking here first before you got too serious.
And this!!
OP
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Member
VNB5T - 1964 Vespa Sears Allstate
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VNB5T - 1964 Vespa Sears Allstate
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UTC quote
OK so I went and saw the scooter. It was unfortunately raining so I wasn't able to drive it but yes, I have driven them before. He kicked it over and the lights, horn, and kill switch all worked. What's annoying is I'm currently am dealing with a case of tennis elbow and shifting on that left side actually is quite painful, but That will have to wait for another day. I didn't really see a lot of what was pointed out in your posts so far. The dent in the back is minimal and he said it came like that (he bought 2 that were barn finds), and the engine cowling cover fits snuggly against it. As for the Bondo repairs that someone thought they saw, there's nothing there. I saw no rippling and I had a flashlight looking at it from all angles, both in the footwells and with the frame. He showed me the one place where there was Bondo and that was on the engine cowling. He took the frame to a professional that sandblasted it and another company primed it and painted it. All of the upgrades that he said he did were done about 20 years ago. The scooter has about 2000 miles on it since he did the upgrades, roughly 100 per year though it hasn't been out this year. That license plate says 2018 and that's just the year that the historic license plate was issued. It doesn't mean it's been sitting for six years, in Ohio. You only have to get a plate once and then you never have to register it again. The wiring was new 20 years ago, as were all the rubber parts except for the air intake rubber boot. He said he did replace that recently. The tires are also 20 years old, so yeah, those would have to be Replaced as would the trim. He said he got the top end off A sprint and I think he bought a separate carburetor in order to get 150cc out of it. Didn't really see any leaks. He showed me where it's sat the past year. He also said that in a previous life, he worked with engines so he did not have pictures of the scooter before he started working on it, and he also did not have a professional looking over his shoulder.

Is the front tire supposed to be kind of offset from the front fender? When the handlebars were neutral in the middle, the wheel and fender were also facing straight, but the wheels offset to the right side of the fender when facing the scooter head on. I'm gonna try to illustrate that in the pictures.
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The more i look at this bike the more i hate it. $1000 tops.

this is an amateur restoration and unfortunate in areas.
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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You have a 64 Allstate that you were gifted/received it 12 years ago, right? How time flies! And we can all understand being bucks down and not being able to move forward or stall a project. We can also all understand that you want to ride right now, hence dropping 3Gs on a supposedly good deal. My 2 cents: Just get the one you have running, we can help. Run it all summer, have fun with it. If you want to get into it more motor or cosmetic wise, that's what winter is for. Meanwhile, put up some pics on here, those old Allstates are cool machines in their own right.
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
Jeeze, whacked machine. I wouldn't touch it and agree with Gick.

My opinion...
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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GickSpeed wrote:
The more i look at this bike the more i hate it. $1000 tops.

this is an amateur restoration and unfortunate in areas.
Yeah, too many red flags, the quality of workmanship just is not there cosmetically and possible mechanically. The engine cylinder head is puking all over the head of the pipe, who know what else needs work done? To me it would be parts/project scoot.
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VNB5T - 1964 Vespa Sears Allstate
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Quote:
You have a 64 Allstate that you were gifted/received it 12 years ago, right? How time flies! And we can all understand being bucks down and not being able to move forward or stall a project. We can also all understand that you want to ride right now, hence dropping 3Gs on a supposedly good deal. My 2 cents: Just get the one you have running, we can help. Run it all summer, have fun with it. If you want to get into it more motor or cosmetic wise, that's what winter is for. Meanwhile, put up some pics on here, those old Allstates are cool machines in their own right.
I do. The engine runs fine just the clutch cable snapped and it did it originally decades ago so my grandfather ran it through some tubing on the outside of the frame. Also the electrical doesn't work. I'm just not at a place right now where I can devote the time to get it fixed so I'm thinking about using the $3000 and getting it professionally restored up here in Cleveland Ohio. Know of any place who can bring it back to glory? Cleveland Moto?
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This is an example of the scoot probably would have been better off leaving it alone cosmetically and just getting the mechanics in good shape. I kinda got turned of at the first picture posted with that paint job but that's just me. I'll get off the soapbox now.......
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Cforst513 wrote:
I do. The engine runs fine just the clutch cable snapped and it did it originally decades ago so my grandfather ran it through some tubing on the outside of the frame. Also the electrical doesn't work. I'm just not at a place right now where I can devote the time to get it fixed so I'm thinking about using the $3000 and getting it professionally restored up here in Cleveland Ohio. Know of any place who can bring it back to glory? Cleveland Moto?
Jon Gick comes to mind first.....
OP
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Member
VNB5T - 1964 Vespa Sears Allstate
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I'll do a Google search for him, but do you happen to know if he's associated with any outfits up here? Or is he freelance? Do you happen to have any contact information?
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64 V90 survivor '65 Allstate survivor. '75 V90 SOLD. '77 P200 SOLD
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Cforst513 wrote:
I'll do a Google search for him, but do you happen to know if he's associated with any outfits up here? Or is he freelance? Do you happen to have any contact information?
Gickspeed contact info
He built several motors for me and his attention to detail is amazing.
He is the Allstate specialist and will get you well sorted
It is worth your time to take it to him.
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VNB5T - 1964 Vespa Sears Allstate
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exmayor wrote:
Gickspeed contact info
He built several motors for me and his attention to detail is amazing.
He is the Allstate specialist and will get you well sorted
It is worth your time to take it to him.
Thanks! Will he restore frames too or need I look elsewhere? Mine needs a top to bottom refresh
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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MM him. It's Gickspeed here in MV
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Cforst513 wrote:
Thanks! Will he restore frames too or need I look elsewhere? Mine needs a top to bottom refresh
Give him a call and also browse thru his Gickspeed FB page. I sent him this smallframe a couple years back. He made the modifications I wanted to the frame then sent it out for .paint.
Shipped frame and motor up to me in Wisconsin and I assembled it as a winter project
75 V90 - Graffiti Girl
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Way too many red flags. Don't walk away - run.

OFG
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GickSpeed wrote:
The more i look at this bike the more i hate it. $1000 tops.

this is an amateur restoration and unfortunate in areas.
Harsh but on point. Ppl who know good older Vespas, original runners even in rough shape or well done correct restorations in an original color - pro or amateur... They not gonna like this much. At $1000 it could be a fun ride if the motor, brakes, tires etc are good and you could eventually make it more respectable I suppose with patience, money and specific knowledge of the stock bike specs.
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UTC quote
lots of questionable work on this one
⚠️ Last edited by dirtyDAVE on UTC; edited 1 time
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UTC quote
Cforst513 wrote:
Thanks. It kind of breaks my heart that it's not a good buy. He posted a video of it kicking over and revving up, sounds like other allstates I've heard. I'll drive it today but if it was you guys, you'd pass? We aren't looking very hard, this just happened to fall in our lap on Facebook marketplace. I did notice the rubber in the rails being just completely trashed. Dang it.
I have two "opinions" for you.

One, I don't like this scoot. It really bugs me that the damage to the frame and fork weren't repaired before painting. Excuse me but that fork is crooked as F@#k and the big dents in the frame back that up. There's just too much shoddy work going on. It doesn't matter what the price is to me.

Second, I'm all for you spending your money on fixing up your scoot. I think you should get yours running right and start using it. You can always restore it later. If you really want something to ride now just get something cheap but roadworthy.

My two cents, Rob
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UTC quote
One more thing, GickSpeed kicks ass! He is very knowledgeable and does really good work. He's done work for me. 👍😁👍
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UTC quote
A company primed and painted it ? I can't believe that, this looks like a not talented amateur job.
The paint looks in good condition over the dents, so why not repair before as the frame was sandblasted ? Something is not going right.

I may understand what happened, a crash maybe ? right side crash seeing the poor leg shield repair ?

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

That would explain the big dent at the back right side ? And the fact that the fork is bent. I would not drive that seeing the wheel alignement ! That scoot is dangerous to drive, period.

You say the engine is modified, would you really trust the job has been correctly done when you see the overall condition of the scoot ?!

It seems you won't do the job yourself, which means you are paying a pro, to get a correctly repaired Vespa, it is going to cost you A LOT, maybe not in parts, but in labour.

Allstates are not that rare, find another one, be patient, don't rush. You will find a way better scoot in your price range.

What you are doing is clever (asking before buying), we give you opinions
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UTC quote
What Colin Said

And What Rob Said

I'm with everyone else on here that if you have a bike that has sentimental value, but needs a little work, then put your money and energy into that.

While the clutch cable was farmer-bodged (made to work for good intention, but done incorrectly), that's a fifteen minute repair job for an experienced Vespa mechanic.

Regardless, if you want to ride, get that bike on the road. If you can't do the work yourself, I also support getting with Jon Gick. He's The Man on wideframes and Allstates.

Unless you're really opposed to doing so, I'd suggest that you start building some mechanic skills once you have the bike back on the road.

I'm not saying you should aspire to do your own motor rebuilds (although I'd wholeheartedly support it if you did), but things like repairing a broken cable or cleaning the carb jets are something that anyone should be able to do, because you never know when that's going to happen (I had a relatively new shift cable break on me at the grocery store a few weeks ago), but you don't want to be off the road because it does.
OP
UTC

Member
VNB5T - 1964 Vespa Sears Allstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 21
Location: Ohio
 
Member
VNB5T - 1964 Vespa Sears Allstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 21
Location: Ohio
UTC quote
So I just found this on Facebook marketplace. I am definitely not in the market to buy a scooter for $15,000 but I was curious about the price and the model. Is this guy just smoking some wacky tobacky or can a scooter like this command $15K on the resale market?

For sale is a rebuilt classic Vespa, which holds a significant place in Italian history. This particular model was one of the last designs created by Corradano D'Ascanio, the original Vespa designer. The authenticity of the work can be verified by Cafe Racer, Ypsilanti. The scooter features a custom paint job that matches the original green color, which is no longer allowed in the US. Additionally, it boasts a beautifully crafted leather seat that complements the scooter's overall style. With a 3-speed manual transmission and clutch, this scooter is legally registered as a moped in Michigan. The seller can provide proof of registration and transfer of ownership. As it approaches its 60th birthday, this vintage Vespa is a must-have for any enthusiast.

https://www.scooterlounge.com/vespa/buyers-guide/vespa-small-frame.shtml
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@safis avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4329
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
@safis avatar
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4329
Location: Veria, Greece
UTC quote
They're delusional. They should cut back on whatever drugs they're doing…
@oldfatguy avatar
UTC

Hooked
Hurricane 200X, 2020 TW 200 (sold), 2022 Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 151
Location: North Alabama
 
Hooked
@oldfatguy avatar
Hurricane 200X, 2020 TW 200 (sold), 2022 Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 151
Location: North Alabama
UTC quote
"New-in-box" maybe. Not original paint? Yes delusional.

OFG
@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4298
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4298
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
Someone watched too much "American Pickers" Razz emoticon
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9627
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9627
Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
Quote:
...
The scooter features a custom paint job that matches the original green color, which is no longer allowed in the US.
...
You guys are not considering the added value of what it takes to duplicate this rare original green color that's now legally prohibited here! That's gotta be worth at least another 13K, right?

ROFL emoticon
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