Modern Vespa

Recently went on a trip up to London with my local Vespa Club, taking the backroads and avoiding the motorway.

On the way there, we stuck together and rode as a group, but on the way back - a few needed to get back quicker and so I rode with this breakaway group.

One GS160 (standard engine), one 150 Super (standard engine), and a small frame running a 130cc kit.

I'd assumed that as they were running 1960's / 1970's Vespas that I would have a massive advantage with a modern 125cc... but it was the complete opposite!

Up to about 45mph they shot off into the distance and it was difficult to keep them in sight.

Above 45mph, I started clawing back a little bit of pace, but not a big advantage - and above 50mph I had the higher top speed. On roads with lots of roundabouts and turns, we rarely got above 45mph before the next braking point and it was a real struggle trying to maximise every turn and braking point.

The pace difference really surprised me. I thoroughly enjoyed the chase, but still can't get over how difficult it was to chase them!

I also had a LX125 behind me, and he was even further back than I was and ended up losing us completely.

That's the advantage of having gears to select and knowing how to use them over a CVT scoot. The GS stock probably has 8 HP, the Super - again stock- has about 5.5 HP to your scoot which is about 10.5 HP or so. But it's about where that HP is being delivered and how to take advantage of it. On a CVT, you can tune it some, but on a Manual shift scoot, you have a lot more choices.

Or is it the fact that two-stroke engines put out a lot more power than four-strokes?

The CVT is reasonably good at maintaining the engine at a high-power RPM level while increasing the gearing. So it would surprise me if the entire difference you've seen were solely due to manual shifting.

Of course, I've been surprised before....

PX150 - 9hp
Primavera 150 - 12.5hp

I'm not sure published horsepower values were calculated the same way across the times in which these were published, or that two- and four-stroke HP numbers are exactly comparable for this purpose. Maybe this is due to the differences in torque in addition to changes in calculation methodology between the '60s and now.

In particular, everybody says the two-stroke 150s from the old Vespas and the Stellas were rockets. I've never ridden one, but the 25% lower HP of the old two-strokes doesn't jibe with their reputation, and JakeM's story certainly does.

Good conversation about shifting vs twist and go. I do not want to go back to shifting. There seems to be a focus here on how fast you can go. I say, get a bigger scooter. My input, the Vespa GTS300 is the scoot for all purposes.

Bob Copeland

Several decades of engine design:

2T today is not the same as 2T decades ago.

4T today is not the same as 4T decades ago.

Comparing across a several decades period is misleading.

Again, It's about knowing your scoot, where the powerband is and when to shift. The Stellas and older 150s were hardly rockets. Many later 50cc scooter could trounce or least stay up with them. But you do have a lot of options on tweaking the engines to get the most out of them.

Exactly.

There is also riding skill too. I can't keep up with SteelBytes on same spec bike on twisty roads as I don't have the riding experience that he has. Even if he has worn his clutch out again.

From club rides I would say that a GTS300 generally would accelerate faster and handle better than the 2t bikes.

Maybe there is a correlation between speed and sanity.

Honestly i feel that covid lockdowns on the Yarra Boulevard is what taught me how to nail it through twisties. Learning how to take those hairpins above the speed limit

I'd like to think I'm ok with handling - I did manage to wear through my front tyre at an even rate to the rear, so I definitely make good use of the front brakes!

I think there's also a weight disadvantage. I'm assuming the classics are lighter(?), and the other riders weighed a bit less than me as well.

That's a good point about how they're two strokes at the top of their game, vs my 4 stroke that's earlier in its development (and probably heavily limited by emissions regs now!).

Here's a few pics!

Maybe. It depends how the 2Ts were set up. Also, they are about 80 pounds lighter. Handling? I would go with the old machines every time. Nothing against the GTS, they are fantastic, comfy, all-around good machines.

Not really much weight difference - both about 250 pounds.

In that first picture the front wheel on the center bike seems to have a definite lean to it or is that just because of the way the handlebars are turned?