Modern Vespa

Thanks! Yeah they are! 🛵💨

The scoot looks great, your efforts really show in the end result!

What they all said, and I'll just add this: When it looks this nice w/ cowl off revealing tidy original motor w/ authentic scruffy metal cowl, then you know it's gonna be good.
... Standing by for your official debut pic w/ everything all done and them old cowls installed.



Looks like they came out as nice as your mudguard did under all the surface rust and haze.

Thanks!

Thanks! I'll leave the engine cover off if I know there'll be gearheads around!

There's something special about the engine patina on this one. Shows what it's been through but also made it through.

Other than the front fender, which definitely needed serious attention, the rest of the body was just power washed. I haven't washed with soap and water yet or waxed and definitely haven't cut and buffed. Not sure I want to do the latter. I have used some spray polish that cleans, preserves and shines simultaneously. Just to keep it protected primarily with the added benefit of making it look a little spiffier. The one I like and swear by is Yamalube "Spray Polish & Instant Detailer" and can be ordered online or picked up at any Yamaha dealership. I've never found anything that comes close.

Next up will be messing with the pilot jets and trying another set of mirrors. The cheap ones were junk. Go figure. Even came pre-rusted right out the box. Even if they were mint they weren't usable. No adjustment but if I wore a watch I'd be able to use them to tell the time. I really couldn't find much Stateside that I trusted would work but also wasn't exorbitantly priced. I ended up getting some multi-adjustable basic Cuppini mirrors from SIP. They were actually a good bit cheaper there and even with the shipping they are still cheaper than the same mirrors in the States.

Anywho! I'm going to keep updating this thread even if it's mundane or minor just to keep track of it at least.

Here's something I think you might like about now. I used it on my AllState for protection and lots of shine on the old paint. It really does as you'll see in the vid and it's cheap & so easy to use.
More here: New to me P200E! (Post 2695782)

Interesting! I've heard Linseed mentioned around old hot rods before. I'll definitely look into it! Ospho is something I've seen mentioned here and would like to look into as well. I used phosphoric to dip parts but it will take paint as well to an extent. Interested in seeing how it works just removing/stabilizing bits of surface rust in situ.

Thanks for the heads up!

I've started using ospho after sandblasting (before paint) and to protect metal in the seams. I use a spray bottle to apply it, blow it in the seams with compressed air and rinse with water mixed with baking soda. It doesn't have to be on long to etch the metal. It would need to be redone every so often on bare metal surfaces.

Good info. Thanks for the tips!

Finally took scoot out for first long test ride. All previous test rides were on residential streets with 25~ mph (40~ kph) speed limits.

Well that thing gets it! I was pulling a steady 55 mph (88 kph) indicated, which is about 5 mph off, at just past half throttle in 4th gear. It was really cooking and had no problem on the back country roads. If anything the exhaust will scrape if I hit a big bump. There were some sections I just stood up like they do on ADV bikes.

I didn't want to stress it since still breaking in so didn't shoot for absolute max speed but when I got back my ride tracker showed a GPS indicated 55 mph max speed. I'm really tempted now to try a 10" on the rear only for the added clearance for the exhaust and the higher on paper top speed. If I could get a cruising top speed of 60 mph (96 kph) I'd be happy.

I've dubbed it "Lil' Ripper"! That first popped into my head when I heard it run for the first time and now after a literal RUN it definitely fits!

The idle jets should be here today maybe so will fiddle with that. If I can get the last little bit at early throttle that would be great!

Also did some math so I know my range. Had been filling up a little 1 gallon gas can to premix but for this trip I filled up a 2.5 gallon can. Was able to fill the tank up all the way for the first time. I measured the depth of the gas then went for a ride and remeasured. Calculated the difference and multiplied the capacity by the difference. Used the GPS indicated distance traveled against the amount of gas used and came to 40 mpg and should have 60 miles per tank before hitting reserve.

The ride itself was a blast! I'm sure there were quite a few people surprised by the little red scoot flying thru the country at over 50 mph!

Great pic/poster! Nice report, and glad to hear lil ripper is ripping!!

Thanks!

Idle jets got here today. Put in a 52/140 with everything else the same.

AC140, BE4, 118 & 52/140

Was significantly better. I was very surprised by how much it improved. It went so good it almost felt like it wanted more main jet. It was shocking the improvement the idle jet made. I keep thinking it's really good and then it gets markedly better.

Then I tried the 52/140 with BE5 and it lost a step. Tried 50/120 with BE5 and it was noticeably worse. Didn't bother with 50/120 and BE4 after that.

So I'm currently sitting at AC140, BE4, 118 & 52/140. As it currently is jetted there's a tiny spot right in the middle and a tiny spot at the top of WOT. Really just splitting hairs now but I want it right. If I had quit the other four times I thought it was really good I'd be missing out on a lot.

I'm going to order a 50/140 just to try it out. I'm also going to try out a BE6 as I think it may address one or both of the tiny spots I mentioned. According to the chart below it has the same idle fuel and one more point of mid fuel, which I want, but two more points of WOT fuel which I think could go either way. Worth trying though. If those don't make a difference I'm done and locking it in.

I can't imagine it getting much better than it is, but I've said that every time and it ends up being surprisingly better so who knows.

50/140 & BE6 ordered. Had to order the BE6 from Vespa Jets in England since none seem to be for sale in the States. Got a keyring and patch out of it to meet minimum order though. I guess that's good.

50/140 got here. Wasn't an improvement.

Separately WOT is pretty flat and I know it's not the jetting anymore. Instead of writing it off as the kit I want to try an Si 24. Midrange is great but the dead WOT is killing me. Anytime I've run into the same on a motorcycle it needed a bigger carb. Here's to hoping I get my midrange and some WOT!

Found a vintage Dellorto in Germany for less than a new one in the States. I also noticed the new ones aren't really Dellorto's anymore? Are they all Spacos I guess? I know there are knockoffs as well.

Fiddling with the mirrors. They are ones with adjustable height. Trying to find the lowest height that works and will then cut off the excess mirror stem. Should decrease the vibration a little.

I'm running a 24/24. It was easier to get rid of the 1/4 throttle flat spot with the 24 vs the 20...

My experience anyway...

Nice. Yeah not surprised. Research showed it going either way regarding 20 vs 24. I have that same spot as well. Should be interesting

May I suggest a product that comes under many names, used to be called Kosmoline in 1950's

3M cavity wax.
Used after painting, it wicks into areas you cannot get to. Preventing rust and quiets vibration a bit. You can buy this or something similar almost any auto parts store and paint jobbers.
It's not cheap, but it's gold.
I have no investments in this company. 😅

Thanks, I was considering that for my bus.

BE6 came in a little while ago but we were in a cold snap.

Didn't want to do tuning in freezing and below temps since it will affect the tune. Very cold air creates a lean bias since there are more air molecules per sample size vs your average warmer riding weather temps. If you were to dial it in at freezing your carb would be rich in warm weather and more so in very hot weather. Anyway...

Got one lone abnormal warm day and threw it in. Made adjustments at idle and took it out. It cooks! All the lingering dead spots were unnoticeable. Hit GPS verified 57 mph while still adhering to break in rules.

I wanna say during brief testing there is a teeny tiny spot at 100% throttle but hardly noticeable. Do not believe it can be tuned out. Will see what happens when the 24 finally gets here. If there isn't a noticeable improvement I will just keep the 20.

Current: AC140, BE6, 118 & 52/140

I think BE5 is a good neutral emulsion tube to start with while you dial in your jets. Once your jets are dialed in you can find the emulsion tube that works best and addresses any issues. I have not had to change any jets after swapping different emulsion tubes once my jets were locked in. YMMV

Something I saw a lot when doing research was a lot of knocking of the Pinasco 177 kit and also a lot of barely tuning said kit. I think those two issues may be correlated. Another thing I was told directly was the SIP 3 was too big for my build. WRONG. 😆 This thing runs amazing, is an absolute blast and is very quick for what it is. I dare say pretty quick period.

I still want to try a 10" rear wheel only but I want one that goes on as is so if it isn't to my liking I can just swap the 8" back on. If it does work I can do it properly and swap to the bigger brakes. I want to see how much it affects regular acceleration but also what top speed I end up with. I'm also having issues with bottoming out that the extra inch of clearance would really help with.

I wonder it there's some way to do a 9" rear wheel. That could be a good compromise all around. Off to the internet!

At that point, get a GL or Sears Bluebage (Sprint). you might want to think about a decent rear shock program before making it into a completely different model/ GL/Sprint.

I want to do it just for shits and giggles. I have no reference point for it and this will create it. It's easily reversible and hypothetical at this point.

I do want to look into a better rear shock though. One that has adjustable preload at the very least. It was just a stock replacement shock to get it riding. The original was roached.

24 got here. It's near freezing but wanted to try it out. Drilled the float passage out. Drilled the filter heart. Port matched the carb to the carb box. Case wasn't too far off the carb box but didn't want to get into that.

Figured since it's a bigger carb I could start with what I was running in the 20. Nope. Ran awful. It idled ok but wouldn't rev on the stand. Swapped down from BE6 to BE4. Slightly better but not rideable. Swapped down to BE3. Same. Decided to reset and just use what came in the 24 stock. AC160, BE3, MJ102. Bingo. Seems it doesn't like an AC140. Came to life and RIPPED!

I started going up on the main to be safe (108, 115, 120) and it idled worse and worse as I did that to the point it would almost die at idle when you revved it. Quarter throttle and up still ripped each time tho.

Ended up putting the stock pilot back in for the time being which is an air jetless 60. Idled and responded good enough to test main on the road. 120 is neutral. Can't tell if dry or wet. Midrange was night and day compared to the 20/20 tho.

Was just a quick test ride as it was dark and very cold. I was honestly worried I was going to wreck hitting some pothole or bump since it was going so fast. Also almost shot thru a stop sign due to brakes not being able to handle the awesomeness.

Off idle it's a little sluggish so need to see if I can tune that out after I lock in the main jet. If it stays sluggish I don't care cause quarter throttle and up is bonkers.

Once again I'm shocked at the improvement. Just keeps getting better. Guess all the parts work well together. Can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Almost done. 😅

Separatley I ordered and received a SIP Performance 2.0 rear shock today. Will be fitting that soon to eliminate the bottoming out.

I was fixing some frame damage on my friend's newer GM Suburban. I didn't realize that GM doesn't even paint their frames anymore. They just dip them in a black colored wax. It's pretty nasty stuff and VERY difficult to remove. The official way to recoat the wax is with a product call Nox-Rust NOX X-121-B It's also some nasty stuff.

Still just a few degrees above freezing and probably shouldn't be tuning at this temp but couldn't resist.

What seemed like rich symptoms at idle was actually lean. Some of it may be due to the 35° F temps which packs in more air molecules thus requiring more fuel but doubt it causes more than a 10% bias.

Anyway it wanted a lot more fuel at idle and at WOT which tracks with what the 20 wanted so whatever. Now have the air/fuel screw out 2.5 turns with a 50/120, still AC160, the BE6 back in and a MJ130. Put the MJ130 in to try and find the BOG° and it liked it. Will put a MJ135 in next to try and find the ceiling.

It idles well, returns to base after 3 seconds when revved and is decently snappy with the A/F screw 2.5 turns out and the 50/120. I want to go out 1 turn on the A/F screw and see if it gets better or worse. It doesn't like LESS fuel so it's either good as is or wants more.

Lots of freezing my ass off test rides and it pulls really well every where but I want to rule out WOT and idle with more testing. Pretty satisfied with the BE6 but will revisit it when WOT and idle done.

Getting closer and a lot of fun.

I want to do a riding vid eventually. It sounds much different with 24 vs the 20. Was surprised. Used to sound a little like a v-twin and now like a little race bike. Was surprised the carb swap would have such an impact on performance. Already thought it was good with the 20 but I never heard this run originally and have no prior vintage 2 stroke scooter references. Closest thing was riding a Stella a couple times 10 years ago. lol

Looks like it's coming along nicely - good job and thanks for the update!

Thanks! Yeah I was surprised by the difference. Thought maybe a little more on top but quarter throttle up is like a different scoot.

I have read about people who have used a 10" rear wheel with a taller? fatter? tire on the front. I don't know what rim and tire were used other than it's still an 8" wheel. Not sure how it worked out or if any other modifications were required.

Interesting. Honestly I'm not sure how much an inch lift will alter the handling. Say I just raised the rear an inch with the shock mounting, it would suddenly become unrideable? It's so low stock I doubt I'd notice honestly.

There isn't really any cheap quickie way to try it out so who knows if I'll ever get around to it. I can also add an extra tooth at the clutch but it's such a minimal gain it's almost not worth the hassle.

After the carb is dialed in maybe I won't care anymore but 70 on almost 8s is like moth to a flame right now for me so who knows. 🔥🛵💨

Spent more time on the carb. Added a full turn out to the A/F screw and it amplified a grumble like sound at quarter transition I hadn't noticed. Dialed it back in a turn and still there. Liked the 50/120 and wanted to stay there so went to the BE5.

The BE5 takes out 2 points of fuel at idle and WOT and 1 point at midrange vs the BE6 according to the chart posted earlier. I find the chart seems to match up with their performance. Wanted the lower fuel at idle. Neutral on the less fuel at midrange. Wasn't sure what less at WOT would do but hoped the less fuel would finally lock in the main jet. Didn't like how high the main is but it wants what it wants.

It ended up working out. I'm back at 1.5 turns out on the A/F with a snappy throttle that returns after 3 seconds. It accelerates good from a stop without any flat spots. I think the 20 accelerated better from a dead stop but the 24 is much better everywhere else. Only talking about 0 to 1/8 throttle really. I'll take the trade off.

Mid is still really good. Never been an issue really. WOT is happy with the less mixer fuel and the MJ130. When at WOT I can hear the rpms increasing, which is a first period, and it pulls slightly less with choke so that's locked in now.

Current: 1.5 turns on A/F screw, 50/120, AC160, BE5, MJ130

It runs really, really well and is very quick with a seamless pull from idle to WOT. I've said it before but I really can't imagine it running any better. When it warms up I may revisit the air corrector but with the AC140 it did NOT like any jet combo until I switched to the AC160.

With that sorted I decided to install the new rear shock. Much to my dismay the shock is 1.25~ inches shorter than the stock shock. Wasn't mentioned that I'd need a bolt extension/spacer on the sale page. Just said it was compatible. Put it on anyway since I didn't want it to be down for a week waiting on a $3 part. When level on the ground it's only about 3/8 inches off based on the front and rear of the floor board height.

I wonder where I could perfectly make up for the ~1" difference in height? Gee oh gee whatever could that be?

Threw an MJ128 in just to rule it out and it lost a step so MJ130 it is. Done with carb.

Checked out rear shock issue. Dragged in a very mild turn lean. Noticed the exhaust now had a dangle angle problem from the short rear shock. Forgot about that possibility. Will order the extension bolt nut. Gotta shelve the 10" rear wheel dreams again.

Got the bolt extender for the SIP Performance 2.0 rear shock installed. Also dialed in sag same as one would for a motorcycle. Have the rebound setting set in the middle for now. Rear now closely matches the front suspension wise. World of difference and makes for a great handling and riding scoot. Pricey but would definitely recommend.

On a less positive note, the kickstart lever cracked. Seems the nut and bolt rattled loose allowing movement when kicking. Sucks but new one on order.

I'm basically done.

I am currently eyeballing 200cc plus builds though. Missed out on a decent P200 core engine. Was seven hours away though and sold while I was pondering logistics.

Prob going with a VR1 just to cut down on hassle. Will ship to my door and everything regarding the block has been addressed already.

There isn't an appropriate way to repair modern frames, but it sounds like a fancy rust mort coating.
Which I hate, it's only good for ships with 5 feet thick steel.

There isn't? I used brand new genuine OEM GM replacement replacement section pieces. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. And as for the spray, it's not a rust mort, nor does it have any sort of phosphorus in it's ingredients.

Hmm, sarcasm incoming
Back in my day, they didn't make no frame repair sections Sonny, must be nice!

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/is-cosmoline-closest-to-gm-frame-wax.297293/

I was just going with the name of your product NOX
"Sounds like" no oxidation in hindsight

So yes it's just kosmoline,
Maybe I'll start a thread of questions where the replies can only be a minimum of 1200 characters

Yes, please do. That would be better than the two of you bickering about metal on my build thread.

Sorry for side discussion, I'm usually never arguing.

It was interesting and informative for the most part 👍