Modern Vespa

A few days ago I started a topic saying that someone approached me and asked if I would consider selling my GT. I said I would consider it but I would have to think about how much I wanted for it.

Someone here suggested $1400. I agreed and so did he. He said there was a 90% chance he would buy it but had to wait until he got his pension check at the end of the month.

Here's the issue. I didn't realize until he came to look at it how frail he is. He appears to be about 75. I know that's not necessarily an indication of anything. I've seen some ride into their 90s with no problems but when this guy walked it looked like he was almost ready for a cane.

What's more is he said he hadn't ridden a motorcycle since he was in his 20s and did not intend to wear a helmet. Now that I'm typing that I'm thinking that that might be none of my business but I can't help worrying about him.

He rode it up and down the street a little and he seemed pretty wobbly.

He said that chemotherapy has given him balance issues.

Here are some options:

I take his money, give him the title and the keys and wish him well.

I tell him I decided not to sell.

I tell him it developed some kind of mechanical issue and is not running.

What I'm leaning to is the first option or just tell him the truth that I don't think he should be riding.

What do you think?

I would tell him the truth. I have been where you are. There are some people that should not be riding, let alone driving a car. My last 2 cents of advice: When I put a scoot up for sale, I insist on two things: 1) they have the money in cash, 2) they have a current, state issued Motorcycle license. That may be your way out as I doubt if the gentleman has a MC license.

I think that you did exactly the right thing.

You can sleep tonight.

I didn't think of the license issue. That's a good one. Since he hasn't ridden in about 50 years I would be surprised if he has a MC license. I don't know if that was even a thing back then.

Honesty is the best policy!

Hard to know what to do, isn't it?
When I sold my MP3, I had a couple of guys show up with walkers. They saw three wheels and assumed it would be safe for them to ride. I had to demonstrate the bike flopping over when it unlocked to convince them it was not for them.
I've also sold scooters and motorcycles to folks without licenses. I allow neighborhood test rides if they let me hold the cash. I provide a helmet if they want to wear one but, at the end of the day, I let people be grownups and make their own decisions.
If he doesn't buy your scooter, he'll likely buy someone else's, maybe not nearly as well maintained as yours.
It is a dilemma.

It doesn't seem like he has a lot of money.

Maybe I should suggest that he get a 50cc so he doesn't have to get a license or insurance.

I would feel better about that rather than him riding something capable of 70 mph.

If it were me, I'd tell him I have had second thoughts, and won't be selling it to him. It's the truth, and if he asks you to elaborate, tell him it's a personal family issue, and you'd rather not discuss details.

You could combine a couple of your options.

"Hey, I'm really glad you like the Vespa so much, and while we have agreed on a price, there is one thing I would really appreciate if we could discuss before closing the deal." Or something like that.

Unfortunately, that may not help. Fifty years ago in the state I live in, you only had to ask for a motorcycle endorsement to be added if you already had a drivers license. No skills test was required and the endorsement remains as long as you keep your drivers license current. From an ethical standpoint, this is a tough one.

First of all, I see you don't want him to destroy himself and your Vespa.
Next, you are willing to be polite and helpful.
And, I guess, you want to let the poor old guy to be happy at the end of life (I don't mean these are his last days).

What if you help the elder guy to buy a 50cc scooter? Or maybe even the wheelchair scooter (or how do you call those 4-wheeled things with a handlebar?).

You may explain him this with a bottle of beer or so. Be a friend to him. I guess he needs that the most, and I see you don't really mind.

I would totally hate it if a total stranger told me they thought I was past it (whatever 'it' was).

We have to find these things out for ourselves and accept reality.

A few years ago I bought a skateboard because I'd enjoyed skateboarding 40 years earlier, I soon found out that was a bad decision! But I would've hated the young guy who sold it to me to tell me 'hey, you're past it grandad'.

I will add the caveat that I would say to anyone that they should seriously rethink the decision not to wear PPE on any PTW (or unpowered 4-wheeler for that matter.. ouch!).

To play devils advocate on this one.

It's a free country and if someone wants to buy something legal then they should be able to.
It's not your job to talk him out of doing something stupid, that's down to him as well as his friends and family that know him best.

As he has been on this planet for longer than most of us and managed not to kill himself yet, perhaps he knows what he is doing.

As I understand it, people on chemo have good and bad days, you don't really know if the short time you saw him was typical of what he is like normally, if he had just had a course of chemo that would make a difference. Was it a really long journey to get to you?

How is he intending using it? he might be tottering around his own property or riding it at 20 mph to a local shop once a week.
He may even get it, decide it's too much for him and sell it. At least then he will have had the chance to see for himself that it wasn't a good idea.

Statistically I imagine young people are far more likely to kill themselves on the roads than older people. I don't think someone refusing to sell me my first car because they thought I would crash it would have gone down well at the time. Even though I was buying it because I had put my mother's car on its roof after landing in someone's front garden. She refused to let me drive her brand new car because it was a convertible.
P.S. I didn't crash it or the convertible I acquired when it was replaced.

Of course it's up to you what you do.

There's probably a lot going on there and this is reminiscent of Bigdaddy808

I don't know if he ever got a proper ride in on his Liberty but it obviously made him happy owning it.

Just for the Hell of it I'm going Worst Case Scenario.

He survives Cancer and you sell him a scooter knowing full well that he isn't 100% to ride it competently.

He overestimates his own ability and takes himself out and the scooter.

Not only have you loaded the gun, you've actually handed it to him.

You should also ask him if he intends to do anything particularly dumb with the newly acquired scooter. Like attempting a 1000mile ride in 24 hours. Or heaven forbid, breaking the speed limit.

OK, there are comments on both sides. It has given me more to consider. Keep them coming.

I have a week to think about it.

I'm still leaning to just selling it to him and staying out of his business. If he were family or even a close friend it would be different but he's not.

I might suggest that a 50 cc would work better for him and he wouldn't have to pay for registration, tags and insurance. I haven't decided about that.

One thing I will do is stand firm on my price but he seemed OK with that.

I might try to be friends with him. I obviously like the guy. He's a car guy, like me and we would have plenty to talk about.

Yes, engage him in conversation for a while. Maybe he'll want to tell you more about his 50 years of motorcycling, and you'll get a better feeling about his abilities — or maybe you'll get an opening to tell him about your concerns.

He doesn't have 50 years of riding experience.

The last time he rode a motorcycle was 50 years ago when the was in his 20s. He said it was a Ducati and it scared him then so he sold it and hasn't ridden since.

Well, anyway, talk to him about car's & motorcycles and try to draw him out on what he's been doing.

If he's serious about buying it he'll start doing some research which means he'll find this forum and be reading this thread soon and be fully informed on your dilemma.

He doesn't seem like the the computer type but if he finds it he finds it.

I haven't said anything that I would want to hide from him.

I was thinking it could be for the best.

Just be honest with the man since you've had more time to process this situation. Talk about your concerns, pros and con's and possible solutions like the 50cc and rider course route to get started on a good path. If he gets mad, then it's on him. Who knows, he may even respect you for it, and you've made a new friend. Obviously it's easier said than done. I hate when I get myself into those type of situations. Good luck.

I see nothing wrong with speaking in generic terms about how unsafe riding is in general and that you are concerned for his safety.

In another thread on this forum it was brought up what happened to Nicky Hayden as an example that even the most experienced and talented operators of two wheeled vehicles can have a fatal accident. Worse than that would be to survive mangled and handicapped.

Approached like this, not mentioning that he has cancer and is undergoing chemo and generally appears to be shakier than a dog shitting peach pits and should not be riding may get the point across without getting personal.

You don't want to question his abilities you want to point out that it is extremely dangerous for anyone. I also like to point out that I think everybody should practice on a small dirt bike or small scooter to begin with to get the feel of how to react when the tires slip a little bit. It happens with just a little dirt on the road sometimes. If you are out of practice this is where you start.

There are two types of motorcyclist's/scooterist's. Those on their way to an accident and those on their way from an accident. If he has had time to digest this and still wants to buy good for him but do your best to discourage him like you would for anyone else so that it is not personal.

I am an optimist but my definition of critical thinking is to play out the scenarios in my mind and consider consequences of a mistake, given two choices that both might be a mistake which would be the least bad mistake. Having to recover from a spill in older age while undergoing chemo sounds like living hell but you can't say that to him. You have to ask him questions that lead him to that conclusion on his own.

The poor guy has it tough enough as it is and if you demean him in anyway you may as well just shoot him IMHO. It is a tough spot to be in to try to save him from himself without hurting him worse than he would on the bike.

Funny you should ask…
So I'm 65 female with cancer. I'd always wanted a vintage Vespa because I had lived in Europe 50 years ago.
So I have purchased this beautifully restored 1967 Vespa Sprint 150. It just arrived last week. I do not intend to go on long rides. I want to just go around the block, and just admire it.

I was not aware of some things. First, the rear brake pedal, on the right. My cancer is in my bones and my right foot doesn't work that well.
Secondly, the center kickstand. And thirdly, the weight of the scooter. I think it's more than 250 lbs.

It's awkward to kick start the bike. And I'm wondering if I can operate the rear brake with my good leg…the left.

Go easy on me, but I want honest answers. Thanks, guys!
Have people had issues with the weight, the kick start, the center kickstand, the rear brake??
Again, I only want to ride it round the block, or have motorcycle friends take me for rides on it.

Hi CubFanGal

Honest answer from me is that a Modern Vespa Sprint or Primavera would have fitted your needs much better.

Good side stand (but main centre stand is easy to use), no foot operated brake and starts with a button (no kick start).

However weight wise, 250lbs is about the norm for a small frame Vespa.

That will good for around the block and fitting a side stand is a good idea. I just sold my P200 because I can't kick start it without a whole lot of pain. Now, I'm going to try to be as respectful as I can here : Is there anyway at all that you can get your money back? I hate to break it to you, but you have bought what the crew on the NSM side refer to as a Bodge. In short, while it looks great, it was built to deceive the unwary. I won't say any more but leave you with this thread: Things to Consider before Buying a Vintage Vespa

I had read that warning after my purchase. Still seems like Planet Vespa has an excellent reputation and I checked out reviews. They were legit and people have had their Vespa working just fine for years.

Is it possible I have a good bike? Thorough inspection by my motorcycle mechanic passed with flying colors. He cannot find signs of dodgy bodgy.
Is it conclusive that everything from Planet Vespa is unreliable, unsafe, and a waste of money?
I appreciate honesty here. Thanks everyone

You would be best to post this on the NSM side. More people in the know about this matter.

Does the guy have a spouse or family nearby to talk about this purchase? If not, he may not be thinking it out rationally, in which case your input becomes important.

Either way, the 50cc sounds like a good compromise.

I don't know but it doesn't seem like it.