Modern Vespa

been working on some stuff.. the curly pipe fits great... moved flasher relay under tank..other relays and lithium battery under the seat... Now the motor is going to get rebuilt to a mhr 187..I will document the build and give feedback...its my first vespa motor job, I have no idea what I am doing but with help from jack221 we are gonna give it a go! Ill list the parts that I have bought for the build etc...

What flavor of pipe is that?

got it from sip... I think its a JL pipe...https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/rennauspuff-sip-performance-curly-fuer-vespa-125-ts-px80-150-pe-lusso-cosa-1_21001400?cr=e993ab67-6807-4109-bbed-f6374ebf9f9b&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwiaa2BhAiEiwAQBgyHhqHWI3e2XVjPH_3Evxz3Hf4tUjWxgXcjT1dak660j9f_GUPzXaQVxoCo3cQAvD_BwE

I have that same pipe on my scooter to,

yup, they look sweet!

I am shocked how much quicker it is now.. it pulls much harder and top speed. i gained about 10mph and it gets there way quicker...its a tad loud but not real bad...

Nice! what pipe did you have before?

sito plus.... it was heavy... not sure whats inside but it might have been plugged up a bit who knows lol.. this is with my dr177 kit and 24/24 carb

ok, so i am about to start the MHR 187 build... with help from jack221.... looking to build a mountin road racer for fun! I will try and post alot of pics as i do the project! here are the basics

--mhr cyl kit 63mm bore with 57mm stroke piston

--bell crank 60mm stroke

--trans close ratio tree 12-13-16-19 primary 23/62

--Clutch SIP Race Supersport 23 teeth for primary 62 teeth

--dellorto vhsb 34

--v force reeds

--mrp intake 36mm

-- smart booster ignition cdi

--fast flo fuel tap and pump

--sip flywheel touren 2.0

I'm excited to see where this goes. I considered a curly for my large frame build but after watching all the large frame racers, it seemed none of them used the curly. But damn it looks so cool.

I am not sure why more folks dont use them.. the diffrence is amazing!! yes you got to move a bunch of stuff around and cutting up the scoot might be a sin to many.. hell i paid like $2800 for this scoot.. im cutting it up!! its got more power across the whole rpm range and pulls at higher rpms etc.. you can feel its gonna pull crazy hard with a high rpm cyclinder... that dr177 is a low power setup.. plus I wanted a ton of ground clearence.. DO IT, you will love it! I am getting all my stuff together now.. gonna start tearing this motor apart.. its got 5k miles so i dont think much misc stuff will be worn out.. ill sell the used stuff if anyone needs it.. stock clutch, dr177 kit etc...

I know on left hand turns with a box exuast or a right side expansion chamber, the only thing that scrapes is the floor board. Do you think that'll stay true with the curly? It was hard to tell in some photos whether or not the exhaust would hit or the floor board. That was really my main concern.

looking at it close... it sure looks like the floorboard and kick stand will hit before any of the pipe does! after the kick stand.. looks like a toss up on the pipe or floor board.. i went with a little taller tires to get it a bit higher for clearance.. I dont plan on scrapping the floor board lol...

thats a perfect photo, yeah it looks really close between floorboard and exhaust. That thing sure is tucked in there pretty good.

when i get it all back together ill check the lean angle for you with a pic!

ok, progress on the motor build... pulled the oily pig out and cleaned it up before i pull it apart lol.. looks like a few oil leaks thats for sure.. one up high near the cyl.. where the cases split..or the gasket leaking hard to tell so much oil everywhere... definatly an oil leak under the stator.. its kinda odd.. the crank seal did not look bad but its got to be seeping from it? the case nuts under the stator.. are they supose to have sealer on them? it kinda looked like oil leaking from one of the nuts but it could just be oil dripping from crank seal and moving around. what about that plug on the bottle of the cases|(lower left of picture just out of view) what seals that thing? I dont know yet cuz I have not tore the motor apart yet

Ok, tore the motor apart.. everything looks mint as it only has 5K miles on it... Jack, 4th gear looks great.. the crusiform hows this look? I got a new one anyway just wondering.. I got a new kick start gear too but this one looks mint. as i had electric start.. you were right the oil pump gear delete shim is 3.8mm got that one here too..

Have a close look at 2nd and 3rd gears, they are usually the most worn. I'd definitely change the cruciform to the stronger type. I'm liking the BFA one at the moment.
Gears will likely need a re shim. If keeping all 4 cogs, check the clearance now and buy the correct shim(s) to tighten to the limit.

Jack, all the gears are perfect.. no chips, nicks, gauling, worn edges etc.. with that said.. did you want to change any of the gears? i got a new drt 12-13-16-19 62 primary 23 tooth clutch I am open to changing it since im in here...

Keep in mind that the gears are very rarely ever worn on their teeth. 99.99% of the time the wear will only be in the areas where the cruciform makes contact with the gear.

Also, if you're building a "mountain road racer", a 62 tooth primary will be super duper tall. You may not ever have the opportunity to use 4th gear. A 65 tooth is pretty much spot on for most builds.

As WDC said if all are ok inside, then keep them until worn out. It won't be the last time the engine is split. High bhp engines are really hard on the cruciform.

The new clutch has what cog already, 23 straight cut?
The DRT 12-13-16-19 cluster must go in. 62/23 4th overall, is pretty much the same as 23/68 4th with a stock cluster.
There is a 22 tooth clutch cog available if 23 is too much

ok, I see what you mean on the crusiform now.. the gears look good. second has a tiny bur that ill clean up but nothing real bad... I chcked my oem trans.. the gears are
58/42/38/36

and the oem tree is 12/13/17/21

new drt tree 12/13/16/19 with the 62 primary 23 tooth clutch

the stock gears have about .010" gap now.. should I reshim? I dont know what the specs are it does not say in the shop manual..

the output shaft is a bit rusty.. took a little effort to get it out...clean it up and use it or replace it?

Yes, clean it up but not too much. Needs to stay tight. Check the bearing. I expect it has some minor surface rust but feels fine.

ya bud.. bearing is perfect on output.. just a tiny rust where it met the shaft..ill clean it up.. let me finish cleaning up the other parts and we will start the next step..

did you see this note?

ok, I see what you mean on the crusiform now.. the gears look good. second has a tiny bur SEE PICTURE(I dont think the crusiform even touvhes there). is the gear good or change?... I checked my oem trans.. the gears are
58/42/38/36

and the oem tree is 12/13/17/21

new drt tree 12/13/16/19 with the 62 primary 23 tooth clutch

the stock gears have about .010" gap now.. should I reshim? I dont know what the specs are it does not say in the shop manual..

Gear looks ok. Put it back in. I like them worn out before replacing.

Gears should be 5 thou for tight. At 10 thou it's good to go, by 20 they need tightening. If changing clips and shims aim for 5.

perfect... let me clean up all these parts etc..pull out all my new parts and inventory.. then we will be ready for the next step! Thanks!

ok, moving along..I am going to get this tree put together..I watched videos online seems simple enough.. just make sure the gear is installed so its level with the tree..as it goes on one way only. use a vice to do the rivets.. anyhting else im missing? Ill take the bearing and center shaft out of the old tree...reuse them..

So i worked on the gearbox today.. changing the crusiform...WTF was vespa thinking.. taking the old one off.. fucking thing just spins (cw)... beat it like it owed me money... new crusiform and shift rod.. blue loctite.. torque to 30nm... it never got tight... it just spins... what a wast of time.. what am i doing wrong.. im pissed now.. might just tac weld the threads sticking out the bottom to the crusiform.. change the whole f-ing thing out next time it needs changing..

On the EFL getting the old one out is usually like that. Shift rods are inexpensive. Which is lucky because you need another one.

Someone will be along with the correct number but it should be less than 10nm. Nipped up with a spanner is all it needs. Where did you get 30nm from, some people don't do the clutch up that tight.
The cruciform connection to the shift rod is like the Jesus nut on a helicopter.

Yes that little f-in thread... I got 30nm from the sip site.. its lazer etched into the top of it as well lol.. the odd thing is.. when your tighting it.. it progressive gets tighter and tighter... it did not cross thread etc.. went in bye hand no problem then unlike a normal bolt where it bottoms out and stops... it just kept getting tighter and tighter but never reaching the 30nm.. its almost like the cruciform was a lock nut type feature in it.. if it had gone in normal like a normal bolt and then stopped.. i probably would have just snugged it up.. maybe all you guys are wrong! Its supose to pull the threads off inside the cruifold and that way it cannot unscrew!!! its brilliant!!! yes the rod is cheap but that stupid bfa crusiform is like $65... maybe it was defective.. hmmm

https://en.blog.scooter-center.com/anzugsmomente-drehmomente-vespa-lambretta/

Might be some German humour. SC has it at 15nm, same as a cylinder head nut. Seems high but about right.
SIP must be selling a lot of selector rods. 33nm is the hub centre nut kind of torque on their chart.

I agree it seems real high but im learning here lol.. I am going have to go a bit slower and double check stuff lol.. that chart you gave me is perfect..I printed that out...thanks! I am gonna look at it today..I still might tac weld it on the end.. then when it comes time..Just grind the weld off.. as no matter what you should grind those few threads off that are sticking out..I think if i did that first it would have come right off quicker... ill send a pic if i can get it welded..

I'd be removing it and replacing what's stripped. Welding is too risky and would be really difficult to remove later.

33Nm is probably the name of their new line of SIP performance products…that they have manufactured over in India.

I have found that new cruciforms feel a bit tight when first threaded, but threaded correctly and not stripping. I have no way to check the exact torque though I could probably cobble together a socket that would work. I just snug it up with a drop of loctite.

wdc, thats funny yes, like you said orwell.. it was kinda tight the whole way.. did I hit a spot where ity got tighter... yes but honest even doing it by hand I probably would have just keep going until I fell it at least stop/ bottom out.. it never did.. im gonna screw it together first on the bench to make sure I see it go on all the way first etc....

use these for torquing https://www.harborfreight.com/7-piece-3-8-eighth-inch-crowfoot-metric-wrench-set-94427.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=21901739207&campaignid=21901739207&utm_content=173216762791&adsetid=173216762791&product=94427&store=509&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA4rK8BhD7ARIsAFe5LXK_5ETGLLOxe01DyYb75xyLrufatvr_AEUzHGNDBbdlpVrlGjsyIg8aAh9qEALw_wcB

ok, anyone ever add this oil hole in the DRT tree? oem has one drt does not...

Jesus nut? As in, if that nut fails, yer gonna meet Jesus?

I think Vespas have a lot of Jesus nuts. I keep finding them. Most recent find is the Jesus kickstart cog. In discovering how it works, I now understand what could happen if it collided with the primary.

Yes, good guess. It's actually what it's called. For exactly that reason. Google it.

If the cruciform disconnects from the rod while riding it is unlikely to end well. Minimum would be gear teeth in cog heaven.

And this is why I welded my crusiform... to the rod stud.. it made the most sense to me.. now its not coming off.. but when its time to change the crisifrom.. you just put a big wrench on the rod and turn until the stud breaks off inside the crusiform and it all comes out so easy.. it came out perfect! Ill let you know how it goes next time i change the crusiform any opinion on that oil hole?