Modern Vespa

Plan to sand, bondo then spray.
Any guidance on product choice for the filler?

Looks like it already has a ton of bondo behind it, might want to get that off, do some panel beating and then lightly skim with filler.

Good plan! I used a soft mallet and it's surprisingly 'normal' looking. Just the cracking, but seems that's from the original white finish. It was sprayed baby blue many moons ago. Should I just get a bondo brand mix-it filler?

Yeah, don't buy Bondo brand filler. There are better brands out there.

Any recommendation?

Filler sticks best to bare, sanded metal. I like Evercoat Rage but I'll use most anything. Bondo is a pain to sand. Wait till you see how much this stuff costs today. Insane.

My plan is to peel off all the cracked areas to get to metal. Then sand as much surrounding to get a gritty finish, then I'll get some Evercoat. Will provide photos for feedback….. thanks!

I'd sand all that shit off and do the bodywork. You won't get good results with previous filler underneath. It will crack and lift off later. Some people prime then fill and some fill then prime. Either way the filler might have some pinholes so skim that with 2 part glazing putty and prime after leveling. Rage is easy to sand but strong.

USC Feather-Rite is decent AND affordable. Evercoat is very nice AND expensive.

Pro tip: don't use the word bondo when referring to body filler. It's kinda a derogatory word in the auto refinishing industry.

I totally agree with the 70's Bondo lingo. If you're crafty sometimes you can find Evercoat products cheap (Pamona Swapmeet). I get great deals on sandpaper there too!

Cali, don't pay any attention to that Nason crap in my background pic. That stuff is worthless.

Great follow up. The Evercoat Rage is pricy!!! $85!
USC feather rite seems better for me. Just having fun and trying to do a 'good enough' job. I bought some sanding blocks as well. Heading to the auto paint shop Saturday to get a spray can made to match the existing cowl color. Apparently, they have a machine that can match the color?
I was reading a MV post from a fella in Fresno who's been restoring a red p200 and currently put it for sale. He was self critical of a blotchy bondo cowl repair. Prior to me starting, is there feedback to help me do a better job with prep? He had photos and the prep shots looked decent, but the end result seemed a disappointment. I've inspected the cowl in detail. I do not believe there is bondo there, it's all clean metal and I believe the drop was the first for this bike. The cracking was the original paint.
FYI on another note….. took my wife around the neighborhood today. First time I've ridden two up! Was fun!

slice of ham says that's a respray.

the white(?) that's under there is probably the OG color.

You are correct!
Not sure what a slice of ham is worth though.
The white is original, and the baby blue is respray. There is peeling in many places from the respray. Especially the headset. I'm hoping the auto paint shop can match the color.

The issue I have run into with color-matching is that some of the new systems default to a stock color. They will scan it and tell you its for a 2017 Hyundai or something and it might need tweaking to really match.

Make sure you let a sample of it it dry long enough to see what the wet color turns to before you take it home.

Ain't that the truth? We used to have a guy that was a genius at paint mixing and would usually get it right first time. He's retired now. Nobody has skills anymore, they just hit buttons on the computer or try to use the light gun without stellar results. 🤣

As I recently discovered, paint matching usually involves using a device to look at a sample and find the closest match in a current color for a vehicle recently in production. In my area, the local independent paint stops were bought out by big chains. Staff are often kids earning minimum wage.

It makes me feel old. When I was a student in the mid-90's, I had a shop paint my '82 Renault Fuego that I had prepped myself. The sent me home the first time to do more sanding. "You need to do better on your filler work here and here". I brought it back and they shot it with a base/clear metallic Porsche polar silver. It was the best looking car I ever owned. They charged me for the paint and an hour of labor. It was like $340.

Thanks for listening to an old man ramble.

I always get a small touch up bottles of each of the tints used ( sometimes charged cost of the bottles ) and can usually bump it closer if it's off. Which it will be....

This place is a local independent shop that deals lots with hot rods and restorations. I will definitely test the paint on the cowls before leaving. I'm having fun and thinking good enough will be good enough.
This weekend I'm pulling the wheels, carb cover and flywheel cover. Found a local guy with a sand blaster in his garage and gonna clean up old paint and surface rust. All in all, I'm having a lot of fun!

How do I know when to stop sanding?

With the amount of filler and number of coats of paint on there, if they're any good, they'll probably tell you to take it to bare metal.

Fire, followed by a wire wheel, is my preferred method these days.

You are looking to match and save the baby blue paint job it sounds like. If you plan to respray the whole cowl then what Chandler said, but if you just wanna fix the roadrashed area then maybe you're done - now your filler sanded smooth, scuff it good, mask, prime and paint. Wet sand & rubbing compound to blend the overlap when it's dried hard.

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You are probably good at this point to rough it up with 80 grit, fill and paint. Bondo brand is really hard to sand. Something like rage gold is the easiest to apply and sand, but only makes economic sense if you are doing a lot of filler work. For such a small area, you could use anything.

Just went to the paint shop. The color match is PERFECT!
But I didn't know I have an 8 hour window to use the spray can then it's done. So, I'll need to really take apart more and prep so I get maximum use out of the can.

careful, a can goes astonishingly quick.

On another note, I don't think it's worthy of a new thread, but I just spent over an hour trying to pry apart a 10 years old wheel, tube and tire, without success. Including hammers, two grown men, and some really long screwdrivers…. I was able to get half of the wheel off. I'm literally gonna throw out the wheel and start fresh with a reproduction. Is this common?

Very common...the bead seats more over time, then the rust sets in and holds it tight. Try soaking the edge of the bead/rim with penetrant; then use the prybar/screwdriver to pry the bead away from the edge. Let it set a day or 2 before prying. You'll work it off just an inch at a time all the way around, over and over till it comes free. If that doesn't work, you can cut the tire off with a grinder; which smells fantastic. Careful not to cut the rim.

yes

there's several tricks for freeing the tire from the wheel. the search feature should be of some help there.

At least it's not just me. I think I spent two hours. Drenched in sweat. Frustration galore! I think I've convinced myself to buy new black rims. Getting older and I now weigh benefit/ease vs frustration.

Not just you. Had one just like that. The others were easy.

If you go the route of new wheels, I highly recommend the Pinasco split tubeless wheels. Worth the scratch for numerous reasons IMHO

Unless they've fixed them since the last time I bought a set, they're 2mm thicker at the stud holes than stock, so you'll probably want to replace the studs in the hubs of you go that route.

Upside is that you can use nylocks nuts on them instead of the funky 12mm nuts that SIP and FA Italia use. The 12mm nuts are nice because they transfer the load from the wheel to the hub, so it's trade-offs all the way down.

Chandlerman,
You were on a thread about 4 years ago and someone suggested these. From scooter mercato. Thoughts?

My set is a year old, and it has the 2mm thicker center width. I dont see it as a design flaw to be fixed, but Yes; 5mm longer studs would be advisable. I mount them with tall profile Nyloc nuts.

I have heard that these can warp easily, but cant confirm.

For me the downside of solid tubeless rims is the tire mounting. Using a machine they always get damaged. Doing it by hand can be done, but its difficult; and no tire/motorcycle shop wants to make the effort cuz its "just a scooter"

The Pinasco wheels look nice in the photos. The wide side looks like it's machined down towards the center making it easier to remove the tire? A light coat of silicone grease on the o ring should keep it sealing for many tire changes. Thanks for mentioning them. Same principle as the wheels for a Beechcraft King Air I recently changed a tire on. Of course we automatically install a new o ring on that expensive beast.

They are the best wheels I've had. Hold air well, and rarely need to top them up. They do take a bit more time to put together, with 2x as many bolts; and seating the O-ring properly. But no chance of pinching a tube; and should be safer if a puncture occurs. A bit of grease on the O-ring and careful torquing of the 10 bolts is required; as well as careful install of the valve.

I've heard some have had issues with the valve not sealing properly, but this can be easily replaced with a part from the auto store; and this also happens on car tires. Just something to keep in mind. I have extra valves and O-rings on hand JIC.

I did replace my hub studs with 35mm grade 10 button head bolts, which are 5mm longer than stock studs. With the tall profile nylocs + washers; there are a few threads still exposed when tightened.

The only improvement I would like to see on the design, is some type of locating / positive orientation stud between the two halves. Currently without that, You have to rely on the bolts/bolt holes to get them aligned manually. For mating the two halves I used 5 additional extra long bolts, thru where the hub studs go, tightened those down; then installed the final 10 bolts to finish up.

From my experience, if you have the ability (tools/patience/cash) to handle the mounting and replacement of tires on them, the single piece tubeless rim is the best option. I don't have an opinion on SIP vs. FA Italia. They're also lighter than the Pinasco's, which are themselves a fair amount lighter than a stock wheel. I don't disagree with any of the criticisms above.

If you want/need to stick with the split rim, then the Pinasco is the best (only?) option, but you really do need to commit to replacing the hub studs for safety reasons.

Lack of any Nylock option on the SIP rims is my biggest complaint about them. You have to use the proprietary nuts, which work well enough, but you better make sure you have a few spares on hand in case you lose one.

Regardless of which route you take, you'll find they're a smoother ride and knowing you're less likely to suffer a blowout if something does go pear-shaped isn't the worst thing in the world, either.