Modern Vespa

Maybe this sounds strange or seems irrelevant to others, but I've been alternating the last days between both MP3s (2007 MP3 250 and 2021 MP3 500) and I'm very struck by the fact that in curves I feel the old 250 (2007) much more "planted", with better cornering, better entry and exit in the corners, in short it gives me a feeling of greater confidence and more agile. In the 2021 I feel a bit of understeering and it doesn't feel as aggressive when entering a twists.

I'm very curious if it's my ideas or quirks, or is it because of the size of the wheels (12" all 3 on the 250 vs 13" front and 14" rear on the 500) or is it the difference of the extra 5cm (about 2") of wheelbase in the 500 or the width which is also about 5cm extra on the front wheels in the 500? Or is it a combination of all the above?

At the time I thought that the wheels with a larger diameter would make the sensation of turning much more pleasant/safe/controlled, but that is not the case.

Has anyone else felt the same?

age and brand of tires also tire pressures will effect the main differences.

Both have Michelin City Grip 2, both have new tires, both pressure at manual specs (250 27 front 32 rear, 500 29 front 35 rear). I feel is something more…

Edit: sorry, I don't know why I write Pirelli and not Michelin Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

pirellis don't make city grip tires

what age are the tires and what mileage do they have on them?

the rear on the 500 seem a tad high to me. try putting the 500 pressures the same as the 250.

You are right, I don't know why I write Pirelli and not Michelin Less that 1 year in both This are the owner manual specs for both and this is the reason.

Compare the weight of each and there's your understeer

Different shocks will make a difference as well as the weight

About weight (both wet):

- 2007 250 is 249Kg (549 pounds)
- 2021 500 is 282Kg (622 pounds)

The difference is only the weight of a small person

33kg lighter the 2007, now where is that weight, if up front on the 2021 obviously you have the answer, maybe try the 2007 with somebody who weighs about that weight on the rear and see if the handling changes.

33 kilos is a lot of difference in the world of bikes

From my understand most of the extra weight is the engine, as happens in the Fuoco vs the 250 mp3 in same years, maybe a little part as the 2021 have the extra 5cm in the wheelbase and width (more material)?

I found this very good and easy to read article that talks precisely about the wheelbase in relation to cornering and stability (I find others that say basically the same but a lot more technical):

https://www.cycleworld.com/story/blogs/ask-kevin/how-the-motorcycle-wheelbase-affects-handling/

I think it is very close to where my feeling in handling is, and if we add the increase in width between the 2 front wheels of the MP3 can explain a lot more. Maybe the wheels diameter is not a big deal in the equation

Make sense?

weight of bike is most of the difference you are feeling. on my 500 I run smaller tires in front. 110/70-12. would never go back to 120/70. I actually want to try 90/80-12 but there are no choices in usa for that size. I also have been running the 140/60-14 in the rear. burned through four tires in that size. just switched to an even lighter 140/70-13 in the rear. I am likely the only guy on the planet who doers this to their scooters. you all are missing out if you want a better performing bike.

What brand?
Do your preferred fronts have a more round profile?

hands down best front tire I have used is the contitwist. very comfortable, handles well, and lasts a long time. the more rounded profiles do steer faster but I prefer the less rounded profiles.

Will hardening the rear suspension help or hinder cornering?

Depends. You have to measure suspension sag and adjust from there.

Too stiff can be as bad and sometimes worse than too soft.

Also don't forget about the rebound factor.

I am thinking about my 530. I have never felt that it settled into bends very well, the rear shocks are set up according to the manual for my weight. Bends taken at anything above 50mph seem skittish and nowhere near as settled as when I had my HD Sportster which was roughly the same weight. Shocks are very similar and simple

Get some real shocks, such as the ones from Bitubo.

The factory ones are next to useless.

Replacing the shocks is the single best upgrade you can make to a MP3