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1963 VBB T2 Vespa 150Combined with a P200 1978 engine
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1963 VBB T2 Vespa 150Combined with a P200 1978 engine
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UTC quote
Hello I'm restoring a Vespa 150 1963. Vbb t2

I'm going to be using an engine from p200 1978 which appears to fit well.

Question can I use the front fork from a p200 on the 63 Vespa 150 or is it to big

Reason I ask it because I'm converting to a 5 lug and the original has a 4 lug. And instead of having to rebuild the fork and hub from the 1963 I would prefer using. The P200


Anyone done this retro fit before.
So far all pieces appear to be matching up correctly.
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Vdimaio77 wrote:
Hello I'm restoring a Vespa 150 1963. Vbb t2

I'm going to be using an engine from p200 1978 which appears to fit well.

Question can I use the front fork from a p200 on the 63 Vespa 150 or is it to big

Reason I ask it because I'm converting to a 5 lug and the original has a 4 lug. And instead of having to rebuild the fork and hub from the 1963 I would prefer using. The P200


Anyone done this retro fit before.

anything is possible with enough welding and machining.

that being said, why not have both a p200 and a VBB as they are both very respectable in their own right.
So far all pieces appear to be matching up correctly.
Anything is possible with enough cutting, welding, and machine work.

Why not have both a Vbb and a P200? They are both respectable in their original formats.
⚠️ Last edited by GickSpeed on UTC; edited 2 times
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Vdimaio77 wrote:
Hello I'm restoring a Vespa 150 1963. Vbb t2

I'm going to be using an engine from p200 1978 which appears to fit well.

Question can I use the front fork from a p200 on the 63 Vespa 150 or is it to big

Reason I ask it because I'm converting to a 5 lug and the original has a 4 lug. And instead of having to rebuild the fork and hub from the 1963 I would prefer using. The P200

Anyone done this retro fit before.

So far all pieces appear to be matching up correctly.
A P series fork will not work properly in an VBB 8" wheel frame. The lower leg and Upper section are both too long, and the geometry is incorrect. The only way to make this fork work in your frame is with alot of work to cut, shorten, and reweld the fork. The upper section, lower section, and the fork stops as well. Even with that you will still have 10" wheels, in an 8" frame.

To run the P2 engine in your frame I'd suggest leaving the original fork, and converting the engine to 8"; using a Super rear brake plate; and changing the gearing to match the 8" wheels. Best of both worlds! P2 engine + original frame and wheels.
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1963 VBB T2 Vespa 150Combined with a P200 1978 engine
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Thx for the reply. So I'll leave the original fork but I can convert it to a 10' wheel. It's been done before. Curious why you suggest leaving the 8" wheel verse the 10" wheel.
Is this. Personal recommendation or is there more to it mechanically and does it introduce any other known concerns.

I personally prefer the bigger wheel and the rear mounted wheel with engine appeared to have mounted up fine. Haven't actually driven it yet but it looks ok.
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1963 VBB, 1974 90
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I have a VBB 2T and I would leave it on 8's. You can get a 10->8 rear hub conversion from SIP.
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Vdimaio77 wrote:
Thx for the reply. So I'll leave the original fork but I can convert it to a 10' wheel. It's been done before. Curious why you suggest leaving the 8" wheel verse the 10" wheel.
Is this. Personal recommendation or is there more to it mechanically and does it introduce any other known concerns.

I personally prefer the bigger wheel and the rear mounted wheel with engine appeared to have mounted up fine. Haven't actually driven it yet but it looks ok.
It's my personal preference. There are many 8-10" converted examples out there, and I actually like them for what they are; if done properly. Although, at first glance, they do look a bit odd; if not a bit 'bodgey'. If you're working with just an 8" frame, then knock your socks off; go full PK fork with hydraulic brakes, hot rod engine and the works. If your's is solid and original; why not keep it that way. There are lots of 10" Vespas out on the market, if that is what you prefer.

If converting your original fork to 10", you will have tire fitment and rubbing issues; as the 8" fork lower leg is shorter than an actual 10" version. The tire will rub on inner mudguard. This is a typical vietbodge mod. An 8" Vespa with a P2 engine would be a ripper!
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1963 VBB T2 Vespa 150Combined with a P200 1978 engine
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Yes thankyou for your feedback. I'm excited about having this engine fitted on the vbb t2. I basically had p200 that the frame was too far gone and the Vbb with no engine. So making these work together is going to be exciting.

I'll update the form with the progress and any challenges I'm having so far it's good
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P200 powered 1961 152L2 (UK Douglass built VNA)
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You can use a conversion wheel rim from SIP as I have on my 152L2, uses the same 4 bolt fitment and is as simple as changing the wheel. Easy to switch back if you want to revert to 8inch as well. Been using for years on my 152L2 with P200 engine. I have uprated the spring and damper on the front as well, but not vital. The only time I have had the tyre rub on the mudguard has been when VERY heavy braking 2-up. Other than that it is a non-issue

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/rim-sip-tubeless-215x10-for-vespa-150-gs-vs1-4-vd1t-vd2t-vgl-1t-front-or-rear_80181800
152L2 with 10 inch Sip conversion rim
152L2 with 10 inch Sip conversion rim
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1963 VBB T2 Vespa 150Combined with a P200 1978 engine
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UTC quote
Hmmmm I like this option even better I didn't realize or see that there is a 10" 4 lug wheel available..


The SIP web site isn't always easy to find things on.


What are the exact spring and damper on the front as well upgrade that you did?
I'm interested and send the links.

Any other upgrades?

Also what did you do about the voltage regulator I'm going to need one of those as well. Since everything is going to 12v now.

Any mods to the kickstand?
Does the P200 original exhaust fit well... It appears to be wedging up against the kick stand spring.

Any other recommendations or advise would be great. I'm glad I'm not the first to experiment with mounting a P200 Engine on a VBB T2 1963 vespa 150 frame.
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Vdimaio77 wrote:
Hmmmm I like this option even better I didn't realize or see that there is a 10" 4 lug wheel available..


The SIP web site isn't always easy to find things on.


What are the exact spring and damper on the front as well upgrade that you did?
I'm interested and send the links.

Any other upgrades?

Also what did you do about the voltage regulator I'm going to need one of those as well. Since everything is going to 12v now.

Any mods to the kickstand?
Does the P200 original exhaust fit well... It appears to be wedging up against the kick stand spring.

Any other recommendations or advise would be great. I'm glad I'm not the first to experiment with mounting a P200 Engine on a VBB T2 1963 vespa 150 frame.
You'll most likely need a taller center stand, or the front wheel will still be on the ground. For the spring, try moving the rear hook to a one of the other slots; so that it doesnt rub.
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1963 VBB T2 Vespa 150Combined with a P200 1978 engine
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Thankyou and Easy enough... I'm gonna see if I can adapt the P200 stand on there.

And what about your suspension mods? curious what you did and why? Doing the full restore so I'd like to get as much as I can on my order.
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P200 powered 1961 152L2 (UK Douglass built VNA)
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This is the front damper I fitted, but I ran it with the standard one for a couple of years....

https://beedspeed.com/products/vespa-125-150-rally-super-sprint-super-gt-vbb-bgm-pro-touring-front-shock-absorber-damper-black

The spring was a stoffi one I think. Bought it second hand on eBay so don't have a link. But it just stiffened it up a little more than the one that was already on there, which was made in 1961!

I'm terms of the stand, I have only ever used a side stand, as in the picture. I had to cut half an inch or so off the end to get it to work with the right amount of lean.

Exhaust is a Polini box, doesn't touch the stand or anything, no reason why it should?!?

In terms of electrics, I fitted a new wiring loom with a Ducati 12 volt regulator and conversion light switch, and a 12 volt horn and 12 volt bulbs. Bought the loom and the switch from an eBay seller.

I think people over-think these things. Just go ahead and do it. If it doesn't work first time, modify. It will all be ok in the end.
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UTC quote
Vdimaio77 wrote:
Hmmmm I like this option even better I didn't realize or see that there is a 10" 4 lug wheel available..


The SIP web site isn't always easy to find things on.


What are the exact spring and damper on the front as well upgrade that you did?
I'm interested and send the links.

Any other upgrades?

Also what did you do about the voltage regulator I'm going to need one of those as well. Since everything is going to 12v now.

Any mods to the kickstand?
Does the P200 original exhaust fit well... It appears to be wedging up against the kick stand spring.

Any other recommendations or advise would be great. I'm glad I'm not the first to experiment with mounting a P200 Engine on a VBB T2 1963 vespa 150 frame.
Dude…don't **** around with that 10" SIP conversion wheel. The absolute last place you want compromised suspension travel is on the front tire! If you still feel the need to risk it, install a zirc fitting inside your front brake drum and pump it full of grease so that it will render your front brake inoperable. That or slather axle grease on the inside of the mudguard so that the tire won't lock up under heavy braking.

I've converted two different 8" scooters to 10" with P200 engines. One is a Wideframe VB1 200 and the other is a VNA Allstate 200. I used a P200 fork on the VB1. It took a LOT of modifications to the fork to make it happen. It also took a LOT of work to get the mudguard to fit centered over the top of the tire. Using a P or PX fork is a terrible choice. I used a PKXL fork in my Allstate. It fits better than a P fork, but that too also took a TON more sheetmetal and fork modifications to get it exactly centered and no tire rub at full suspension compression. I have lots of sheetmetal and welding experience, and it still took me about 5 years to figure out my plan of attack!

One fairly easy option is to use a PKXL fork and a fiberglass PLC conversion VBB fender.

An other option that's even easier (and not very aesthetically pleasing) would be to install a "hugger" low fender.

I have one more upcoming project that involves a "modern" P engine swap into an old 8" wideframe, but this time i will keep it on eights. The 10" conversion just takes TONS of time to do correctly.

I'm not going to tell you to not convert over to 10", but i wouldn't try using a P fork, and especially not a 10" conversion wheel.
⚠️ Last edited by whodatschrome on UTC; edited 2 times
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P200 powered 1961 152L2 (UK Douglass built VNA)
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UTC quote
Like I said, I think people overthink these things 🤣🤣🤣
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whodatschrome wrote:
Dude…don't **** around with that 10" SIP conversion wheel. The absolute last place you want compromised suspension travel is on the front tire! If you still feel the need to risk it, install a zirc fitting inside your front brake drum and pump it full of grease so that it will render your front brake inoperable. That or slather axle grease on the inside of the mudguard so that the tire won't lock up under heavy braking.

I've converted two different 8" scooters to 10" with P200 engines. One is a Wideframe VB1 200 and the other is a VNA Allstate 200. I used a P200 fork on the VB1. It took a LOT of modifications to the fork to make it happen. It also took a LOT of work to get the mudguard to fit centered over the top of the tire. Using a P or PX fork is a terrible choice. I used a PKXL fork in my Allstate. It fits better than a P fork, but that too also took a TON more sheetmetal and fork modifications to get it exactly centered and no tire rub at full suspension compression. I have lots of sheetmetal and welding experience, and it still took me about 5 years to figure out my plan of attack!

One fairly easy option is to use a PKXL fork and a fiberglass PLC conversion VBB fender.

An other option that's even easier (and not very aesthetically pleasing) would be to install a "hugger" low fender.

I have one more upcoming project that involves a "modern" P engine swap into an old 8" wideframe, but this time i will keep it on eights. The 10" conversion just takes TONS of time to do correctly.

I'm not going to tell you to not convert over to 10", but i wouldn't try using a P or PK fork.
people always want some kind of easy way out and it always comes out looking terrible, devalues the bike, and a POS 10 years from now. it never holds up and always a heart breaker when you see these things.

Anything worth doing is worth doing right.

my 2 cents.
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I always wondered how a 10" wheel would look/function for a rear wheel with an 8" wheel on the front, possibly with a larger tire. For me, the shorter gearing caused by the 8" wheel with a 200 engine would be the biggest concern.
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GickSpeed wrote:
people always want some kind of easy way out and it always comes out looking terrible, devalues the bike, and a POS 10 years from now. it never holds up and always a heart breaker when you see these things.

Anything worth doing is worth doing right.

my 2 cents.
^^^^This^^^^

I HATE seeing crappily done scooters, because I know they could look and be so much better than someone just "going for it" and making a hack. Tons of farmerbodges here in the states that I've seen. The Gickster has probably seen more than most!
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whodatschrome wrote:
Dude…don't **** around with that 10" SIP conversion wheel. The absolute last place you want compromised suspension travel is on the front tire! If you still feel the need to risk it, install a zirc fitting inside your front brake drum and pump it full of grease so that it will render your front brake inoperable. That or slather axle grease on the inside of the mudguard so that the tire won't lock up under heavy braking.

I've converted two different 8" scooters to 10" with P200 engines. One is a Wideframe VB1 200 and the other is a VNA Allstate 200. I used a P200 fork on the VB1. It took a LOT of modifications to the fork to make it happen. It also took a LOT of work to get the mudguard to fit centered over the top of the tire. Using a P or PX fork is a terrible choice. I used a PKXL fork in my Allstate. It fits better than a P fork, but that too also took a TON more sheetmetal and fork modifications to get it exactly centered and no tire rub at full suspension compression. I have lots of sheetmetal and welding experience, and it still took me about 5 years to figure out my plan of attack!

One fairly easy option is to use a PKXL fork and a fiberglass PLC conversion VBB fender.

An other option that's even easier (and not very aesthetically pleasing) would be to install a "hugger" low fender.

I have one more upcoming project that involves a "modern" P engine swap into an old 8" wideframe, but this time i will keep it on eights. The 10" conversion just takes TONS of time to do correctly.

I'm not going to tell you to not convert over to 10", but i wouldn't try using a P fork, and especially not a 10" conversion wheel.
This is good advice. Not over thought, but WELL thought out; from experience. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right.
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button wrote:
Like I said, I think people overthink these things 🤣🤣🤣
Too many people don't put enough thought into these things. Things like safety, appearance, reliability, usability, rarity, and future value are important factors to consider.
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GickSpeed wrote:
people always want some kind of easy way out and it always comes out looking terrible, devalues the bike, and a POS 10 years from now. it never holds up and always a heart breaker when you see these things.

Anything worth doing is worth doing right.

my 2 cents.
Well said.
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1963 VBB T2 Vespa 150Combined with a P200 1978 engine
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UTC quote
So apparently these are my current options.

- 10" 4 lug wheel
- replace the front axel shaft which then converts to a 5 lug hub
- Customizing the P200 fork and fender (ehh more than I want to get into)
- But a new fork that is for fits the VBB and takes a 5 lug hub.
- Leave the front fork and 4 lug hub as is. with a 5 lug in the rear (ehhh NO)


I want to leave the P200 OEM hub (5 lug) and not change this, so that's staying. And plus with a P200 on a VBB frame I'm going to need a 10" wheel especially if I put a kit on there.

Now to figure out what to do with the front fork and hub...



When people post the URL links I appreciate it because I'm learning new sources to get material/parts I don't want Junk plastic things this restore is costing some $$$$ so I don't want to cut costs on certain things.

The engine rebuild will happen at another time but I can't wait to get some other recommendations

Thx All some great feed back here.
~Vin
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You missed the option to regear the p200 motor for 8" and just rock the 8's. You'd also need the rear brake conversion parts. Totally doable.
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As someone who did the 10" conversion…. Keep the 8's. Just re-gear the motor and swap in the brake and hub.

You don't need 10" wheels with the 200, even with a kit. I have a PX150 with a VMC177 kit on it. Geared for 8" wheels. Goes well over 70mph.
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Vdimaio77 wrote:
So apparently these are my current options.

- 10" 4 lug wheel
- replace the front axel shaft which then converts to a 5 lug hub
- Customizing the P200 fork and fender (ehh more than I want to get into)
- But a new fork that is for fits the VBB and takes a 5 lug hub.
- Leave the front fork and 4 lug hub as is. with a 5 lug in the rear (ehhh NO)


I want to leave the P200 OEM hub (5 lug) and not change this, so that's staying. And plus with a P200 on a VBB frame I'm going to need a 10" wheel especially if I put a kit on there.

Now to figure out what to do with the front fork and hub...



When people post the URL links I appreciate it because I'm learning new sources to get material/parts I don't want Junk plastic things this restore is costing some $$$$ so I don't want to cut costs on certain things.

The engine rebuild will happen at another time but I can't wait to get some other recommendations

Thx All some great feed back here.
~Vin
I'm not a purist when it comes to 8 or 10 wheels, so i'm not going to judge however anyone wants to build their scooter. Though i have my opinion on what size you should use, i'm staying out of that fight. If you want 10's, then go ahead, BUT make sure you build it so that it's safe. If a 10" conversion wheel (with 3.5x10 tires) fits with absolutely zero chance of tire rubbing at full suspension compression, then i'd say that route is an option for you. If there is a chance of rubbing (which it has been documented that it does), then maybe a shorter 80/100-10 front tire might provide the clearance? It might look weird, but it might just give you the required clearance. Keep in mind that since you're wanting a 65+mph (stock) 200 engine, you'll want a great front brake to match. And that means fork dive.

And not only is the P fork's upper shock mount casting waaay too large to fit under anything but a P mudguard, it will most likely offset the centerline of the front wheel out of line of the rear wheel. I'd just forget about the P fork completely.

Keep in mind that just because SIP sells something, it doesn't automatically mean that it actually works. It's been documented many many times that a lot of the SIP parts require a heck of a lot of modifications to actually work correctly. At the end of the day, it might just be easiest to stick with the eights?
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sdjohn wrote:
You missed the option to regear the p200 motor for 8" and just rock the 8's. You'd also need the rear brake conversion parts. Totally doable.
This would actually be the simplest option, all things considered. Since it seems like you'll be splitting the engine anyway, a primary swap it called for and not too difficult to do. Your primary likely needs attention anyway, if its old and original. The rear brake dust plate and 8" hub are easily attainable. Thats all that needs to be changed. This way you can run the P2 engine, with an 8" rear wheel, and leave the front fork unchanged.

Whodatschrome outlines some good options, if you decide to go the 10" route.
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Molto Verboso
1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, 2003 Malaguti F12 Phantom,Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
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UTC quote
Like Whodat said, if you go ten on the front make sure you get something that doesn't let that front wheel touch the mudguard through the range of the suspension. Don't want you getting hurt from a get off and or ruining your scoot. There's safety third but there's also in the hospital which I strive to avoid. I'm on board with 8s or 10s if it's done right.
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bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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UTC quote
sdjohn wrote:
You missed the option to regear the p200 motor for 8" and just rock the 8's. You'd also need the rear brake conversion parts. Totally doable.
This is, by far, the best option.
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