OP
@chippieboy avatar
UTC

Hooked
1965 VBB2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 157
Location: Santa Cruz
 
Hooked
@chippieboy avatar
1965 VBB2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 157
Location: Santa Cruz
UTC quote
I have been wondering if waiting at a traffic light, what is the lesser of the two evils. Idling in neutral then the crunch of the cruciform going into first gear or the wear on the pressure plate with the clutch in while idling in first gear.
I have my idle set pretty low. Will stall if cold if set any lower.
Lately I have been idling in neutral then giving it a slight push then shifting it into first. Sound a bit better than not moving at all.
UTC

Hooked
GL150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 112
Location: Durham
 
Hooked
GL150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 112
Location: Durham
UTC quote
As well as the mechanical sympathy point of view there's an argument that it's safer to be in gear so you can get out of the way of whatever may kick off.

On most of my bikes I tend to stay in gear, but on the vespa I always select neutral - the clutch is very heavy and it also starts to drag if it's held a long time like you can get at temporary traffic lights.
@pdxjim avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
2005 PX150 In a Part-time Relationship with a 2-Stroke Vespa Since 2007
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1873
 
Molto Verboso
@pdxjim avatar
2005 PX150 In a Part-time Relationship with a 2-Stroke Vespa Since 2007
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1873
UTC quote
Good question.

I was taught to always stay in gear at stops for the same safety reason cited by Madeups, but often don't for the reasons also cited by Madeups. Indeed, holding a Vespa clutch for the entire duration of a long traffic light can be quite fatiguing to the arm, even if it's a Cosa clutch.

A side-story related to this very issue...
Some years ago I was stopped at a red light all by myself at an intersection where I needed to make a turn to the right... turn signal on, left foot on ground, right foot on rear brake, left hand holding clutch in first gear, right hand on throttle, and wheel turned slightly to the right ready to go.

Since the wheel was turned a little to the right, the mirror was also turned so I couldn't actively monitor what was going on behind me, but was frequently checking anyways to make sure that the white SUV pulling up from behind was slowing down to a stop, which it clearly had been and was nearly already fully stopped.

Except... the driver turned out to be quite elderly and while slowing to a dead stop overshot it at very low speed and literally tapped me from behind with just enough force to send the clutch lever out of my grip and the next thing I knew I was hopping on my left foot trying to keep standing while watching my Vespa take off by itself out from under me. Fortunately, because the wheel had been turned a little to the right it didn't get more than about 6 feet before falling over in the crosswalk. I personally wasn't injured nor was ever even touched by their vehicle, the damage to the rear body fender was limited to the area under the now bent license plate, scratches to the side were mostly on the cowl and pretty minor, the driver's insurance wound up paying for a full restoration, and the driver, who at first I thought was about to have a heart attack after the incident, managed to calm down and avoid another calamity.

Back to the OP question... "Clutch in or out at a traffic light."
IMHO, yes. Overall, it's still best to be able to get out of the way if something was coming in your direction. But, it doesn't do you any good if you're not aware of it and that's where I slipped this up. If I hadn't turned the wheel to the right in anticipation of turning, my mirror would've been better positioned to keep an eye on what was behind me. And, I assumed that a vehicle slowing to a dead stop would actually completely stop and not fumble a foot in the last few seconds.

If I'd had it in neutral, even though caught by surprise I might've been able to hang on to the grips and avoid the runaway bike, but the rear impact though slight, still would've occurred and overall it would've been a more dangerous position to be in.
OP
@chippieboy avatar
UTC

Hooked
1965 VBB2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 157
Location: Santa Cruz
 
Hooked
@chippieboy avatar
1965 VBB2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 157
Location: Santa Cruz
UTC quote
Wow... That was a close call. Good that you ended up ok.
After I pondered on the question overnight. I was thinking another way of looking at it. I think it is easier to change a worn pressure plate than a Cruciform.
@daleb avatar
UTC

Hooked
'55 VL1
Joined: UTC
Posts: 181
Location: Omaha, NE
 
Hooked
@daleb avatar
'55 VL1
Joined: UTC
Posts: 181
Location: Omaha, NE
UTC quote
Pretty sure I could get off and walk away in the time it takes to get mine rolling in first gear.
@petrus avatar
UTC

Hooked
P200E DN 1982
Joined: UTC
Posts: 412
Location: Vva. del Rosario - Málaga - España
 
Hooked
@petrus avatar
P200E DN 1982
Joined: UTC
Posts: 412
Location: Vva. del Rosario - Málaga - España
UTC quote
The traffic light thing ís indeed a thing but then there is só much that can and thus wíll at some time go wrong whatever you do.
I was run into by a van full of mentally handicapped while waiting for two elderly on a pedestrian crossing.
I sáw the van coming; knéw it was going to clobber me but what do you do?
Managed to veer past the elderly couple and crashed on the elevated roundabout.
Incredible mayhem followed with panicking passenger running about screaming.
Moral; would have happened clutch in or out.

I lived in the Dutch ´Randstad´ and commuted on the motorbike. Sidecar as well depending on where/when I needed to be. Effin´ un-be-lie-vable what motorist get up to.
You MUST ride in the conviction that NONE will register you.

My life´s story has an apt prequal btw.
My mother to be was dating my dad because he was a bit of a bad boy. She was not really serious, a bit slumming with that as he was from the bad side of the bridge.
One day early morning he was riding to work and a car driver made a U-turn. Yes the classic ´did not see you´.
Him in the hospital her dad said ´...and nów you had better visit him dear!´
It cemented the relation.

Recovered he started scootering to work and when I was 4 he sometimes dropped me off at kindergarten with it.
It is not in collective family memory what brand/type nor do photos exist.

Back to clutch in/out and traffic risk, I would like to point to a wonderful book for motorists which is gold for bikers/scooterists. It is all about anticipating:
https://www.amazon.com/Technique-Driving-Carlsson-Erik-Moss/dp/B000J3SMR6
Never mind the price of th´ñis one; they pop up dirt cheap too. Very much worth a read.
@socalguy avatar
UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
@socalguy avatar
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7194
Location: So Cal
UTC quote
Neutral at a red. Ya can't hand signal with your paw on the clutch.
@grumpnut avatar
UTC

Hooked
'58 VBA
Joined: UTC
Posts: 462
Location: Chico CA
 
Hooked
@grumpnut avatar
'58 VBA
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Posts: 462
Location: Chico CA
UTC quote
You're shifting constantly.. Neutral at the light. Parts wear out.
@gmontag avatar
UTC

Addicted
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Addicted
@gmontag avatar
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UTC quote
Neutral at the light.

The only time I've ever dumped is when a clutch cable snapped on me when I was in first and waiting to pull out into traffic. Huge wheelie and the bike landed on my ankle.
@birdsnest avatar
UTC

Not So Moderator
VNB VSC VMA VSX - o9c vbc vmb
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Location: Hustletown, TX
 
Not So Moderator
@birdsnest avatar
VNB VSC VMA VSX - o9c vbc vmb
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Location: Hustletown, TX
UTC quote
Neutral at lights.
@sdjohn avatar
UTC

Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Posts: 8887
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Posts: 8887
Location: San Diego, CA
UTC quote
i'm club neutral too

comes from having lambrettas and smallframes that would drag if you tried to sit there in gear with clutch in
@bajarob avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, 2003 Malaguti F12 Phantom,Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
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Posts: 1366
Location: Ventura, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@bajarob avatar
1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, 2003 Malaguti F12 Phantom,Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1366
Location: Ventura, CA
UTC quote
I'm down with the neutral crowd as well.
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
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parallelogramerist
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UTC quote
Take advantage of the neutral light that came on the early P series
@roland87 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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Location: Ukraine. Kyiv.
 
Molto Verboso
@roland87 avatar
'13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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Posts: 1349
Location: Ukraine. Kyiv.
UTC quote
Neutral.
@moto64 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS, '58 LD 125 (150)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1990
Location: S.Salem, NY
 
Molto Verboso
@moto64 avatar
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS, '58 LD 125 (150)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1990
Location: S.Salem, NY
UTC quote
roland87 wrote:
Neutral.
ditto
@vpfalcon avatar
UTC

Addicted
86 T5, 71 Rally 180
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Posts: 770
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
 
Addicted
@vpfalcon avatar
86 T5, 71 Rally 180
Joined: UTC
Posts: 770
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
UTC quote
Neutral for me too. Also, if im the first one in the intersection, I will pull as far forward as I can so that the car that stops behind me will trip the sensor and then we both get the left turn arrow.
UTC

Ossessionato
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2184
Location: Philadelphia
 
Ossessionato
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2184
Location: Philadelphia
UTC quote
Vpfalcon wrote:
Neutral for me too. Also, if im the first one in the intersection, I will pull as far forward as I can so that the car that stops behind me will trip the sensor and then we both get the left turn arrow.
Same. But also so I have less of a chance of being hit if I stop 10-15' ahead of tho white paint line.
@scooterist avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
71' Sprint Veloce , 05' Vespa PX150, 1978 P200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1605
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
@scooterist avatar
71' Sprint Veloce , 05' Vespa PX150, 1978 P200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1605
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
Neutral for me at the traffic light but since you mentioned that your idle is low and sometimes it can stall it I recommend re-adjusting the clutch cable and adjusting the idle. I also love the idle low but one of my pet peeves is to be able to shift into first gear and neither stall nor have the engine wanting to pull forward on me.
OP
@chippieboy avatar
UTC

Hooked
1965 VBB2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 157
Location: Santa Cruz
 
Hooked
@chippieboy avatar
1965 VBB2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 157
Location: Santa Cruz
UTC quote
Ok everybody.... Neutral it is. That is what I been doing for years anyway even in manual transmissions since forever.
With all the good safety information mentioned that brings up another topic.
My scoot vibrates so bad when idling that I can't see what is behind me. A bit better when moving. I am not sure how much vibration is normal since this is the only running Vespa I have touched. I really think I disrupted the crankshaft counterweight relationship last time I assembled the cases. Really, really hard to get them together. The first half, I heat the case in the oven and cool the crank and bearings in the freezer before assembling. But the second half, cools too much before I can get it together. I am going to check every thing out this winter. And that brings up another topic.
I run a bit rich during break in but then I would like to go to factory OEM jet sizes since I am completely stock. The lounge states that the mixer tube or Atomizer is to be an E1. The scoot came with a BE1. I read somewhere in the MV forum that an E1 and BE1 are not the same. I can not locate a E1 to save my life. Any ideas on above?
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