Modern Vespa

New clutch and cables still jumping into (engaging)first gear with leaver in and twisting into gear
Now I find that I have N in usual place and can start the engine but I also have N when the 3 gear is selected at the bar
What's going on?
Could I have not mounted the selector cover properly on the gear rod?
Is there something broken inside the gear box?
How can I tell test without splitting the case ?

Are you sure your cables are attached properly and adjusted? Here is a good tutorial on shifter cable adjustment.

&ab_channel=SIPScootershop

Do you have the selector box installed correctly? With the little rectangle thing hooked to the end of the selector shaft?

I believe so

Keep it all in one place, you have a thread going,
clutch problem not engaging

Sorry see what you mean about thread

I'm just trying to get some help here as I am at a loss and I hoped someone will point me in the right direction I can't understand why the scooter feels like the clutch isn't releasing when I pull in the leaver yet everything else suggests it is
Hi a thread where? In the gear box?
I took the back wheel off the ground and started the motor I was able to put it into gear and go through all the gears which engaged correctly
But when I took the scooter off the stand and pulled in the clutch it jumped into gear again as soon as I twisted it into 1st
I don't understand what's going on

If the clutch is working, it doesn't matter what is happening in the gearbox. Engine running, clutch lever pulled in, all the gear cogs are stationary.
If you pull the clutch lever and press the Kickstarter, what happens?

This. Put it in gear ( any gear) and pull the lever and kick it over.

If I pull clutch and press kickstart it spins freely with little resistance at the kickstart
Which is what it should do
That's why I'm out of ideas
I'm going to borrow a mates clutch and try that in it to fully rule out the clutch

Might remove the gear selector and check the shift rod maybe the shift cross has loosened

Tried that pushing the kickstart in gear with clutch leaver pulled moves the scooter forward with little resistance
Is that right ?

Did you do this?

When in gear with the clutch pulled in does the engine stall?

I think we need a video. Post something on youtube.

I'm sorry, that was stupid thinking on my part. The kickstart drives the gear stack which drives the axle if in gear. So, yes, that would happen.

From your initial thread : " engine starts I can put it into N when I pull in the clutch leaver and select 1st the scoot leaps forward and stalls. but I don't think its the clutch as the gear box will spin when in N with clutch pulled in and I press the kick start "

Has to be the clutch. When it is disengaged ( lever pulled ) there should be no mechanical connection between the gears and the crank.

With the gears in neutral and the clutch disengaged does the kickstart turn the motor over ? Pull the plug and watch the flywheel.

With the plug out, the trans in 1st and the clutch disengaged can you turn the flywheel by hand ? Remove the FW cover.

I've taken out the cosa clutch again taken it apart to check everything and make sure I put it back together after buying new steels and corks and a new brass bush
It seems fine when I compress it it turns fine there is a little resistance but I think that's normal with all the plates out it spins freely on the bush
Perhaps the Christmas tree is not separating properly with on the Cush drive

The tree and cush drive are geared directly to the clutch bell.
The crank drives the cork plates which drive the steel plates and the bell which drive the cush gear.

Going to see if I can borrow a spare clutch to see if it will have the same effect or not that way I can rule out the cosa clutch being the problem
If it's the same with a different clutch then it must be something in the Cush drive or shift mechanism

I don't see how as the clutch should disengage the entire gearbox from the motor.

Is the Cosa clutch the same height as what came in it?

It is the same clutch basket and cogs I just changed steels corks and brass bush
It's worked up until now so height isn't the problem I only changed the internals to see if that cured the problem
I can't think of anything else I can do but split the case and investigate inside

I know what your saying but I can't think of anything else
Because I can change gear fine once I'm on the move it's just shifting into gear from N
The Cush drive cogs should be able to move a little primary cog against the Christmas tree that's why it has the springs I'm thinking of for some reason it's jammed maybe that's causing it to go directly into gear
I'm out of ideas and everyone I have spoken to doesn't know why it's behaving this way

The springs are in there to absorb the shock ( clunk) of going into gear. The drive is essentially a solid unit.
Shifting on the move without the clutch is possible on manual transmissions as everything's turning. Just can't be done from a stop as the axle is stationary.

I would swap out the whole clutch with a standard known working one and see.

Does sound like the cush drive to me.

Some time ago I had a clutch that did something similar, it was a 7 spring clutch where the offset between the parts where the ends of the springs were located was wrong/mismatched somehow. But I think yours is a Cosa 2 style?

yes mine is a cosa style with sip cr80 plates I've borrowed a original 21 tooth cosa clutch of a friend I'm hoping it will mesh as mine is 23 tooth if not I will swap the cog but that should tell me for certain
I max get try to fit it today but it's not nice out

How many teeth on the primary? Do you have 10 inch wheels?

8 inch wheels p200 gears
23 tooth cosa clutch
So latest I put in the good clutch lent to me and guess what exactly the same problem so I think I defo say it's not the clutch that's the problem
So unless anyone has any other ideas I think it's got to be something inside the case my guess is the Cush drive or possibly crusiform 😬😬

I know I am not the only one who is dying to find out what cures this problem. I think you just have to go in there and see.

Long shot but there's a possibility the shaft through the tree is an issue. A 200 one won't fit in your case, so you have something else If the tree is moving around under load, it could cause your issue, if touching the clutch basket. Some mechanical noise would be expected.

possible I've not noticed anything and I'd expect to see some scaring
I might give the inside of the clutch cover a mist of paint and see if it's touching the cover and stopping it from spinning although I'm sure there would be some evidence

One thought should there be a washer on the shaft before I put the clutch on
I don't remember there being one and I haven't removed the woodruff key ?

One thought should there be a washer on the shaft before I put the clutch on
I don't remember there being one and I haven't removed the woodruff key ?

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/washer-clutch-34x15x3-8-mm-drt-for-vespa-125-gtr-2-ts-2-150-spring-v-2-super-2-rally-px-pe-lusso-t5-without-separate-lubrication_11351930

If this is missing, I'm surprised there's not more issues

i will have to look when it's light but I'm assuming this goes in before you put in the woodruff key ?

It has the notch in it for the key so it could be removed/installed with the key in place.

I will look to make sure it's there
One thought if it is there could it be not thick enough this not lifting the clutch high enough and so when the basket is pushed it's not enough to release it
Or could the washer be gripping the clutch and stoping the basket from turning because later gearboxes have the cog for the oil feed which mine doesn't have
I have sprayed the inside of the cover with a mist of black paint to show up any gripping or rubs on the cover
What do you think ?

I think you are just going to have to open it up and investigate. A visual is worth a thousand speculations.

So I finally got a chance to have a proper look and found no clutch spacer only remnants of a old washer broken and part left in your lace I removed what was left of it seemed to be about 1.3mm thick quite brittle I suspect parts of it must have gone into the gearbox caseing and got chewed up
Hard to know what or if it's done much damage
There was certainly some grey sludge in the gear oil.
I think next step is to fit a oil cog spacer put clutch in and see what happens [/img]

I would be pulling it apart at this point or at least doing so after testing it with a new spacer. Sounds like the gearbox has eaten some metal and a worn out clutch spacer suggests general worn out condition of the engine.

I discovered the clutch shim/washer under the clutch between the bearing and clutch had disintegrated it seemed quite thin so i ordered a nice BGM one 3.4mm fitted it put the cosa clutch back on and it sits too high so when the clutch cover is bolted down it's activated the clutch and I have no kickstart
The cover inside has been skimmed down and modified the brass push rod doesn't sit high so there is little extra I can do cover wise to get more clearance.
Do I grind down the washer to take it down a 1.5mm or buy a clutch cover spacer(I've heard the leak oil)??
I've noticed the washer sits on a shoulder on the shaft if I chamfered the inside of the washer to make it sit fully flat against the bearing cover would that work?
Attached pics to show when the clutch nut is fully torked up it is still 2 threads above the shaft 😬 that can't be right?

Shoulder