Modern Vespa

>crank needs to change, therefore bearings & seals get refreshed.

>ignition unknown besides it being stock electronic. because it started life as a 75 it could have any number of different cranks in it. the crank shaft taper determines the type of flywheel which in turn determines the ignition. small taper flywheels are unfit for high performance use.

if its big taper, and it fits the egig crank you keep it. otherwise vape or whatever.

>pipe, unknown if it fits the egig cylinder. it's 54.5/60mm stud and I'm guessing that the simo pipe is standard. but there is adapter plates, however where that *puts* the exhaust in relation to the motor and frame is another matter.

As my experience goes, Simonini is loud AF and power delivery is crap.

I can't attach pics in PM, so here it is.

Notepad with oil drain plug.

IMHO if you open cases esp. on unknown engine it is better to change all bearings, seals, o-rings, kickstart buffers and other internal small parts.
For Egig build it is good to have good gear selector cruciform, at least DRT or VMC, or something that will hold Egig power - Egig, Fabbri or Crimaz. Same with primary basket. Note that Egig crankshaft need pair of 6204 bearings or 6204 and ETS bearing if it will be Egig ETS crankshaft.
With Egig cylinder it is best to use one of Egig exhausts. I also in doubt that Simonini will fit without modifications but anyway it will roughly cut the power. If we talking about that red PK there is original Piaggio ignition. It may or may not work with Egig. But for sure flywheel need some machining to get the clearance with cylinder. If you decide to buy new ignition - VAPE is the best.

Buenos Aaron.
As is was established that the built is solid, ready to flog, just buy it and gas the crap out of it till it says it´s had enough.
That will give you solid experience based on what it ís and what you want with/from it.

THIS IS THE WAY. I'll add again that the red PK was built by a long standing reputable scooter builder (one of the beset), so most likely it is solid and ready to thrash! It would actually be a shame to buy that done build, only to break it apart to make it different (not necessarily better). Rip it till it blows up!

That particular SIP oil drain plug is absolutely garbage. Like it's not even fit to be a crap magnet. The GS brand magnetic plug actually works really well.

+1

It is just for example how to share SIP notebook. I have GS on my Special and P

I have BGM Pro pre drilled ones secured with locking wire. Whish I could fit the ventilated EGIG one for the filler plug. Vented transmission is much mess likely to leak/sweat.

p.s. anyone sorted the latter? Like with an M8 thread inlet manifold vacuum hose connection or????

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/WuAAAOSwOA5g~xxQ/s-l1600.jpg

p.p.s. will open a separate one on the vent thing; too far off the rails here sorry

https://avotecnica.com/it/impianti-frenanti/3924-sfiato-olio-vmc-per-carter-vespa-large-e-small-frame.html

EXÁCTLY what I meant but not expressed clearly. Much obliged.

Hi all, I hope everyone had a good Christmas, I've been doing some more looking around, and I found a US model 100 Sport for a pretty good deal local to me that was just put up on Facebook Marketplace, I'm going to message the seller after the holidays and hopefully grab it. It's bone stock of course, but engine build wise, I'm thinking of doing an Italkast 132 instead of an Egig 170.

I have made a notepad compiling all the parts to use on the stock V9B1T cases, which I will have port matched and welded/epoxied, however, I am confused on which bearings and seals to use, since I noticed there are like 4 different sets S.I.P. offers. I assume for different sized tapers on different cranks?

I'm getting confused as to what bearing set to use with the 2 cranks I've been looking at, both are Mazzucchelli full circles, but one has a 19/20mm M10 cone size, and the other with a 20/20mm M12 cone size.

I put the 20/20mm one on this notepad, but I'm not sure if the bearing and seal set I have listed is correct, or if those are both for a 19/20mm.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1372111317109697/

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/notepad/rQqBIYD0IUSisldV9pKwGQ

That means you're used to riding a reliable modern water cooled 2 stroke. You might also have expectations that an old vespa can easy be made to be just as reliable. A tuned up vespa is pretty much the opposite of those three things. Unless your tuning, jetting, and timing are just about perfect, you'll be replacing pistons at an alarming rate.

I'd also save up a few more $$$ and get an aluminum cylinder kit. It will dissipate heat much better than a cast iron.

I ´like´ the how to description of swapping jets on a small frame. On that modern KTM it is dropping the float in 30 secs and Bob´s your uncle. GRÉAT comparison with modded small frame life.

AaronA here is correct seals for 20mm crankshaft: clutch side and flywheel side. And please don't buy that cheap black seals, esp. for clutch side.

I'm also in doubt that 29/68 primary will be suitable for cylinder kit you choose.
For EGIG clutch you will need XL2 clutch cover full kit. Crimaz works perfect for me. FRT also is top part.
32mm carb is not needed.
And I'm strongly suggest to use standard gear selector spring instead of DRT one.

Italkast GR-V 135
Squish: 1.05
Ignition: Vape Sport 23°
Carb: PHBH30, jetting is MJ158, IJ48, AS266, X2(1°clip)
Exhaust: Egig Unisex
Primary: 28-69 with extra short 4th gear.

And probably you can reach something like this.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Italkast just a product line of VMC? Can't the stock clutch cover be modified to not rub on the basket? Lastly, is gearing dictated with the input shaft xmas tree, or on the actual gear stack?

And since this 100 Sport I'm eyeballing is 3 speed, you can't just add a 4th gear cog to the 3 speed gear stack? It almost seems like a 3 speed gear box would have thicker gears to make up for the space on the shaft, whereas 4 speed gear boxes have thinner gears?

I'm mostly confused on the gearing, typically on performance engine builds, is the OEM Piaggio gearbox used and the xmas tree is just changed? What exactly is a short or long 4th, and when is it needed?

Gearing is determined by both the input shaft 'xmas tree' and the final drive loose gear stack. A 4 speed gear set can put swapped into the 100sport cases, its a direct fit. You'll need Primavera/PK type 4 gears, the xmas tree, and a 4 speed cruciform. The original driveshaft can be kept and used. There are endless combinations available. For street use, I'd run the stock 1-2-3-4 gears, and a short 4th DRT xmas tree. 'Short 4th' just means there is one more tooth on the 4th gear of the xmas tree, which shortens the ratio difference from 3rd to 4th gear. Makes the transition from 3rd to 4th easier, without needing to over rev 3rd gear to shift into 4th and stay in the power band

Ah ok, that makes much more sense now. This is what I was thinking of doing: https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/gearbox-kit-58-54-50-46-teeth-cif-4-speed-pk-for-vespa-50-125-pv-et3-pk50-125-s-xl-xl2_13490700

Would I be ok with using the cruciform that's included, or should I get a hardened one like this DRT? https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/gear-selector-drt-4-gang-pk-for-vespa-50-s-3-special-v5b3-4t-2-sr-d-100-2-125-pv-2-et3-2-pk50-125-s-xl-xl2_4043175?usrc=Cruciform

If I only had known when I had the cases split Cheap and easy when its open; a múst imo nów. Case closed, well... case closed

VMC, ItalKast, EGIG and SIP cylinder kits looks like from one manufacturer. What exactly idk but Erich(EGIG) states somewhere that it is 100% made in Italy. But it is no matter.

You can't mix loose gears from different gearboxes. It is impossible to add just one gear to 3 speed gearbox. Also there is difference between pre-1976 and post-1976 4 speed loose gears so them also can't be mixed.

Original xmas tree is 10-14-18-22 and short 4th is 10-14-18-21. So one tooth less.
There also 10-14-18-20 and 10-14-17-20 and some others but you don't need it with you current plans.

Yes you can use standard loose gears and add short 4th xmas tree. VMC tree is good choice - cheaper but still reliable.

Can't tell about CIF cruciform but in my engine F.A.(also cheap) worked nice and almost have no wearing marks after 8000 km. But DRT, VMC or other "performance" cruciform is a good addition.

Clutch covers from V50/PK and XL2 have different pushing mechanism.
You can google and see difference.
Tunnig XL2 type clutch covers also have more space for pinion, basket and clutch. Them also more precisely produced what is important for proper work of XL2 type clutches.

About primary you need 27/69. Then after some riding you will understand is you need shorter or longer primary. If so you can just buy another cog with 26(shorter) or 28(longer) teeth and change it without cases splitting. Just open clutch cover.

Good catch. One tooth LESS, not more. thanks for catching my mistake.

LESS if we talking about xmas tree.
MORE if we talking about loose gears.

Yeah, I believe its all VMC, I think Italkast is just a product line of VMC, the S.I.P. 125 looks to be just a VMC GS 125.

Is a 10-14-18-22 fine with a 27/69?

Lets say it will work. But with short 4th it will be better. And as you can see Erich use even extra short 4th. But primary is longer than 27/69.

With this bloody scooters there is too many options and it is almost impossible to learn fast and without practice from zero.
At least you need to ride something to understand a bit what exactly you want.

Here is a big thread about ItalKast GRV on GSF.

Just to be sure, it takes a 97mm conrod right? And based on the notepad I made on S.I.P. is there anything I'm missing? I keep thinking I'd need a quick throttle disc.

Experience based practice is that however well you plan your order, the very moment it can no longer be modified, you will think of/need something else as well.
Ditto when you start building/riding*.

It is a pita but reality
One of the reasons why mods/builds always WILL take longer and then some

* a huge pro of the bike you were/are looking at is that it should be well sorted and you can ríde/enjoy/learn while you sort your wants/needs out and get NSM experience.

When I bought mine did my due diligence as best as possible, went bog standard to avoid risk and....stíll ended up throwing another 50% at it, learning on the way that much of NSM Vespa is NSM Vespa only

AaronA yes 97mm conrod. I'm still in doubt of 32mm carb. Not always bigger = better.

IMHO: Vape Road absolutely enough for road scooter. And it is better to learn more if chosen exhaust is good enough for GRV or maybe there is better options.

If you already there it its worth to change engine and shock absorber rubber mounts.

I was just thinking a Vape Sport will have more power since its variable. I'm going to go take a look at that 100 Sport I linked above on Friday. From what I read, the 100 Sport's horn, head light, break light, and turn signals are all powered off the battery and not the stator, so I assume a DC Vape ignition?

I think what I have so far on the list should be good enough. It's just something to cruise and haul ass around on. Not looking to go insane or anything, but something that'll make 20-30 HP.

30HP is kinda insane for a smallie
That wheelie in 3rd type power, but yeah what You have is plenty I think.

However that VMC expansion chamber might not fit with the battery tray. Hard to say for sure. Please dont chop that original condition scooter to make it fit

The 100 Sport is the only 12v smallframe with a battery. The headlight is still powered by AC power, but the horn, taillight and turn signals are run from the battery. The battery can be eliminated, should You desire; however I'd stick with DC Vape as you have planned.

Fun fact: the 100 Sport has a points stator, but the flywheel is a Ducati flywheel with the magnetic pick. The stator plate can be converted or replaced with a Ducati version for easy CDI ignition upgrade

That bike is time-warp!
I'm guessing that pipe will hit the battery box on the right side Same wiring as the P series only without a junction box, which makes things interesting behind the headlight
I'm running Vape DC on my 100 Sport, everything off the battery. Simple to do and works great.

Where would the pipe hit at?

Typically this style pipe will hit the battery tray at the rearward lower corner, as the pipe curves down and forward.

The width and available area between the battery tray and tire is very tight. Few pipes will work at all with a battery tray model, especially when looking at high performance expansion chambers. I've only found 2 that actually fit without modifications to the frame. Only one I'd recommend made by Jim Lomas. Similar in design to the VMC, but I can confirm it fits from experience. Clearance between the pipe-frame /pipe-tire was about 2-3mm each side. Tight but worked well. Others may know more, but thats my half a penny

Ah ok. Is it this one by chance? https://www.jl-exhausts.com/vespa-pket3-seigiorni-black-6930-p.asp

Yep, thats the one. JL makes great pipes. Good quality, fit, and performance. Made in UK.

EDIT: this JL "Sei Giorni" pipe is not the one I had, and will require modifications to the frame to fit. See further down the thread, page 5; for more clarification and debate.

What length cylinder studs would I need? I recall the 100 Sport has the head that bolts to the cylinder, and the cylinder that bolts to the cases.

Then EGIG 170-187 is your way.

make sure your mounts and the mount in the frame are perfect, otherwise that pipe will hit the lower corner of the battery box and the hinge of the door. which you-- and I cannot stress this enough-- do not want to lose; when you hit a bump and it goes flying off at speed in the middle of the night on a dark street.

here's a start

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/stud-kit-for-art-no-14002110-14002120-m7x158-mm-polini-for-vespa-90-125-pv-et3-pk-s-xl-2_31701110?usrc=stud

but... depending on what kit you have, it may be shorter, longer or need one that's M8, M8/M7 or something entirely different.