Modern Vespa

I never cease to be amazed by the size differences of Vespas on scoot meets. I álso never stop to take notes or what

I do take photos and try get the relative sizes in perspective. Yet when back home I look up the sizes in the specs., those hardly ever represent the differences between the real things.
I mean 100 mm wheelbase and 60 mm seat hight is only 10 cm longer and 6 cm taller, so not all thát much is it but the real scoots next to each other dó differ a lot

Taking my P200E as my reference, the T5 and TX are significantly larger, in the steel again more so than the specs. on paper indicate. Following wide frame, small frame, large frame nomenclature, they should be labeled tall frame imo.

Now to my ´problem´. How small are smallies?
The later PK XL models look about on par with my P-E yet according to specs they are about as much smaller as the T5/TX are larger.
And then the latest PKs áre about same size as my P-E.

Next the earlier PK models dó look smaller and the sixties smallies look like miniature scoots!

The specified weights are not much better because of wheel/tyre sizes, battery or not, glove box or not etc.

And then we get to the 50 cc models. The Special is a real small PK-family design aimed at a younger public but when you get to the nineties 50N you have more of a PK-lárgy outsizing my P-E.

Why this musing?
1. I like the diminutive stature of the smallest Vespas
2. I appreciate the sophistication of the PKs
and cannot define the sweet spot

I have P150X, 50 Special and PK50S.
I also done few hundred km on PV125, 50R, PK XL2 and Cosa 200.
Any PK is smaller than P/PX. But PK is much more comfy than V-range. Especially PK XL2.
This summer I done first long road trip on my 50 Special - 220 km + 80 km + 220 km and my doubts about the comfort of such trips were shattered. I can't say tired more than after same trip on the P.

P.S. I am a big guy - 182 cm and 100 kg.

Thanks Roland.

I am 185 and 90 kg and over the years have learned that chassis and suspension design has more effect on longer range comfort than size.

Most significant size difference is the width of the old smallies, they are so much 'thinner' than a large or wide frame.

The wide frames on the other hand are so much shorter and lower than the largeframes.

Thanks Sjoerdo.
Wonderful illustration of size and size perception.
Yes, the wide frames lóók small and they are indeed LÓW, but a 1957 125N is only 2.5 cm shorter than the P200E.

The narrower ´girth´ of small frames is obviously perceived but as handlebars and mirrors are the widest, it does not list in the specs. Neither does the width of the leg shields which is literally the front presented. Easy enough
to measure but it is featured nowhere.

The leg shield of my P200E measures 47 cm wide max.; at the indicators.
My 2019 Primavera 125 is a for me surprising 45 cm; 2 less whereas it does not lóók narrower.

Here's a Stella and VBB next to a couple small frames

Here's a good pic from an older thread. And another one from Google.



I went out and measured the widths and got 17 inch across the back of the legshield (43ish cm) and 40cm width of the rear fenders.

Notice that the handlebar width is about the same on these two bikes.




The newer smallframes w/ the shell shaped speedo have wider handlebars than the older ones with small round speedos. The older ones are about an inch narrower on each side which can make a nice difference when snaking thru traffic, or maneuvering in tight quarters.

thanks guys; this is turning up some good real comparisons

One thing that doesn't come up enough in the large vs. small frame comparison, IMO, is weight.

Smallframes are LIGHT. Like 150 lbs versus 170 or 180 for a vintage largeframe (VBB or Sprint/GL) and 220-230(!) lbs for a P or Stella! (coincidentally, my Lammy is also right at 220-230, which makes for interesting comparison potential).

So you can throw a Smallie around in ways that no other bike can match, which I think is part of why they feel so much more nimble, even if the geometry would seem to argue against it.

Hear ye, hear ye!!!

It is why my P200E is a no-battery model and the spare stays home.

More hp makes one faster in acc. & speed, less weight makes one fast EVERYWHERE.
It is THÉ reason why I keep looking at a smally with the basic PK75 Junior being favorite.

64 Smalldoor smallframe and 65 Allstate large frame.

Yes I should v oodoo.
There is always sómething though

I biggie is already built scoots.
Next are ´restored´ ones.
Always priced hopeful from the owners´ pov whereas it is doubtful from buyers´.
Over here this covers the majority of scoots for sale.

As to the módel... The pre PK smallies are smaller and lighter but PK is simply better. More better than heavier.
The 50 Special seems the ideal solution but for one those are rare and priced as 18k hen´s teeth and secondly tuning a 49 cc. is legally wrought with issues unlike 75 up.

Last but not least is the charming company. Although téchnically I can do as please, the ´price´ of antagonising is higher than that of 18k hen´s teeth
A cunning plan involves colour. Mint green or such would go a long way to sweeten the news. Not a lot of chance on that though... so when this mint green 50 Special turns up, even at the silly price, I cúrse the legal crap.
Ahhhhh life

So what are the legalities exactly in Spain?

Petrus picture isn't show.

a defining difference is pretty much EU wide distinction between moped and motorcycle. The first being 49 cc and maxing out at 40 km/h. Either more ccs or more hp means it is a motorcycle.
The consequences depend a bit on the driver having a ´motorcycle´ license or not but the law is strict and harsh because it means invalid insurance p.e.
Best avoided.

Next step addresses the brackets of motorcycle license. For those with a car drivers license before 2020 can ride an up to 125 cc motorbike thus scooter. There is also a hp limit but not familiar with the current limits.

Yes plural because the néxt step involves having a motorcycle license. There is a hp restriction depending on the years of ´experience´. The law assumes that having your mc license equals riding experience.
This is however beyond scooter powah output.

So;
1. keeping a 49 cc within legal moped definition is a big deal
2. ditto for 125 cc for those without an mc drivers license.

I have umpteen years mc license so 2. is not an issue. 1. though is.

Additionally we have the yearly technical inspection which involves a noise level verification for all and for 1. can involve a hp test.

I am sorry Rolan; it replicates on my screen and my computer skills go o further
It´s a mint green 50 Special.
Unfortunately beyond reality for me unless I leave it bog/boring standard and that defeats the purpose.
The alternative for a 50 Special is to go completely rogue

Ugh, worse than Greece I think!

So other than inflated cost, some flavor of PK125 would work best for you? If it's legit, stock and from another EU country, would that work?

Importing is a nightmare.
Luckily unmolested PK75 Junior models dó pop up every now and then.
Such a one would draw my attention. It is the same as the 125 but basic and no indicators version.

btw my speedy aspirations are modest. VMC Kappa 58 group, the original 19mm carb and possibly an exhaust depending on what is fitted already.

one popped up but ´restored´ so hmmm.; could be good... or not. Sent seller a mail.

Again nothing

weird.

Will try something else.

Vespa PK75 Junior.

better! Nice white non-indicator PK)

phew Will try have a look at it.