Modern Vespa

nope

The National Health Service in the UK is a source of pride for the vast majority of Brits. The 'shareholder value' here is knowing that whoever you are, and however modest your wealth, you can get the medical treatment you need.
There are challenges, naturally, especially in an aging population, but
I can't imagine a system of healthcare where making profit from poorly people is the main driver.

UHC is truly a horrible company and is unfortunately my medical insurance provider. Wellspan is the largest medical supplier in my area. UHC couldn't come to a new contract agreement with Wellspan so they are now out of network. A co-workers spouse was in her 8 month of pregnancy when the contract expired. UHC would not extend her coverage with her existing doctor. Their website said they would work with clients to insure continued care but they didn't and really only care about corporate profits.

I am dealing with some medical issues and have had to reschedule some testing to another provider in a different town 30 miles away. This has delayed a surgery I was hoping to have completed by the end of the year. Now it will be scheduled for next year and I will have to pay my deductible and out of pocket expenses all over again.

None of the above justifies taking a human life.

nope

nope

If the road to hell is paved with good intentions, where does the road paved with greed, indifference and revenge lead?

It's pretty rare that any of us would see ourselves as the villain in our own stories.

As the CEO of UHC he obviously profited in life and some of his business decisions cost many people dearly. I have no sympathy for him but cannot condone the murder of others. I would like people to be held accountable for their life actions and decisions but I don't get to be judge, jury, and executioner. I'm not sure what life event would change that belief.

I am not at all surprised by what happened but don't want to live in a society of vigilante justice. What mistakes in life have you made that might have caused harm to others? Again, you should be held accountable for your decisions, but not gunned down in public by the person you wronged.

Unfortunately you have picked what are probably the two worst healthcare systems among first world countries. The US has a hi-tech system with many capabilities but fails at affordability for most citizens (and ultimately for its federal and state budgets as well). The UK has produced an affordable system for the average person while failing at capabilities and capacities. You can learn quite a bit about what to avoid by studying these two systems.

Canada realized it was going the direction of the UK several years ago and shifted to a hybrid system which seems to be avoiding the failings of both the examples above. France, Switzerland, and Japan all have systems which can serve as modals for how to go about this. With so many good examples iin Europe, you wander why the UK has struggled so much (I suppose it is explained by "not invented here"). The US problems are the usual ones for us of placing profit above all other factors. even in the public sector.

A fair point and well made

nope

If I pay my insurance up front and I don't claim can I have my money back ? 🤔

I'm in the states. There is an elephant in the room. The insurance companies. There is nothing functional that they do. They are a funnel of money from one place to the next, and it flows UP. A single payer takes the profit motive away. It's really simple economics.

Edit-Functionally they do funnel money. They are the valve.

The movie Office Space is strikingly relevant to my eyes here.
Seems to me what you're suggesting is the insurance industry is encapsulated in the character entirely wrapped around the red stapler. Swingline?

Not true, the UK National Health Service is the envy of many, many countries.

The fact that is has been underfunded in recent years should not detract from what a great service to the UK it has been and continues to be.

Also I should point out the UK NHS is free at point of access only, we as workers have a deduction in our salaries to fund it.

fleece,

Thank you for pointing out that universal health care has some serious short falls. A measure of folks, on this side of the pond, think it is the answer all. I was also aware that those with the financial ability have separate private medical insurance to immediately access care and not have to wait in line.

Skids,

I think Covid (with all the medical issues) backed up hospitals and getting into your regular doctor. Despite this, my clinic (where my regular family doctor practices) has "Urgent Care" where you can drop in anytime if you have a medical issue needing attention. A regular appointment with my doctor is at least a week out. However, if your flexible, his nurse will call you if an appointment cancels and you can come in immediately.

Final Thoughts: I know this may be overly simplistic, but I think reasonable assumptions can be made.

1. Universal Health care, because it is centrally administered by government, is inefficient. The hazard of large programs. The price is cheaper.
2. Private Health providers are very expensive and can have "pay the bill issues after service" due to being linked to for profit providers.

Bob Copeland

nope

I spent over an hour on the phone with a shrill voiced Phillipina with poor English trying to unfuck my UHC pharmacy insurance. When they give a place to donate to Luigi's legal defense fund I'm in.

(If i have offended you, whatever)

More proof that there aren't smart criminals. They allegedly caught him with a fake ID and a gun similar to the one in the video. That being said, I will not be surprised if this guy walks. From what I've seen, the family can afford top level legal representation, and even if he didn't, this is the sort of case that attracts high level attorneys, who will work for free if they have to in order to get this case. He's going to get a lot of fan mail in jail, and people will be less than honest during voir dire to get on the jury and hang the jury or otherwise nullify the verdict. I think people already see him as a sympathetic character, especially the sort of people that usually end up on juries. Imagine a jury with a couple Tor2gas on it.

Complains about healthcare.
Eats at McDonalds?

There are worse data points from the ethical skeptic. I refrained from commenting. Some guys from Denmark asked me to run some numbers early on. Because they were afraid to.
/end gallows humor

The highest trending phrase on the trainwreck that once was Twitter right now is FREE HIM. Anyone want to take a guess as to why PA Governor Josh Shapiro is also trending right now?
People are deleting social media posts in case they get called for jury duty.

I just read a full bio and his friends and the books they read, his medical history, the whole trip. Send me sticker and I'll post a link.
But only after the newspaper approved my post on it. 😂
Hint a cabin in the woods and so very much more

FWIW I don't do the big sites anymore. I left some open accounts- but am totally done when I can see their influence in daily life.

LM Data Engineer at TrueCar, Inc TrueCar, Inc. • University of Penr

I think he's mad because he didn't wanna move to India

https://archive.is/7jUsF#selection-663.0-663.34


allegedly something he poste today.

Check out his abs. He's one of the few that can get away with it.

nope

Bob, I'm not sure that 'government programme = inefficient' is universally true. Plenty of (often European) examples of good health care, good pension schemes, good public transport systems and the like.

I'd agree that private health care seems very efficient (at enriching members of the board and maybe shareholders-(who are often of course one and the same))...

It seems there is a healthcare bubble and investors are making them into funds, saw a video of the victim explaining all of it. Pretty sinister. I don't use western medicine so have ZFTG

Nitro200,

Full disclosure: I am an Insurance agent. When you buy a policy you are in a pool with others to share the risk. If you have no claims, you are helping those members of the pool who have had claims. Thought exercise: you unfortunately cause an accident and injury the other party for medical costs of over $100,000. Your policy pays this. Your company will never break even on you - they rely of the pool to absorb the costs.

Most States mandate auto insurance by law. Reason, when it comes to money, most people could not come up with the cash to pay off the damage they cause to others.

So Nitro200, you can not have your money back. Besides, I am the crook, I get 10% in commission. I swear, it is like a license to steal - I love it.

United Health Care's profit margin is 6%. Mine is 10%. They should have shot me, not the CEO of UHC. So, I guess I will start ducking down allot and walking in zig zage patterns.

Bob Copeland

Ffn A Jody, you made my day.


I just read a reply on a different forum, where the kid totally justified the murder. It's like kids think because they hang out with the cool people they get a monopoly card that says get out of jail free. I tried many posts to submit to his reply to me, and literally just said f it.
If I've learned anything in my life, people develop morality when it's convenient or when they've personally experienced much tragedy. My best friends and I have always had one thing in common, we all had direct experience with real tragedy.
A few war refugees, and worse. It's really hard to quantify real tragedy.
As you well know.
A wall climber who fell and broke his spine doesn't get a pass from me because he was able to play and kill after his surgery.
It's literally the worse case of Bourgeoisie Suffering I've ever heard of.

VespaGeezer,

You Brits do a whole lot well - like health insurance. But Holly Cow, I would be paying 45% income tax in the beautiful British Isles, versus 24% here.

Bob Copeland
Good Damn Yankee

Maybe this case will transcend the terrible practices of health insurance companies and exorbitant salaries for their execs.

We need to repeal all trickle down economics (starting w tax cuts for the uber-wealthy and corporations), congress that serves donors and corporations instead of "the people", citizens united, the law requiring corporations to prioritize shareholders over customers and employees, and the extremely bloated defense budget. For starters, anyway.

Even IF I thought murder (and shooting someone in the back, no less) were justified, this particular kid has zero excuse. I read about the medical problems he and his mom have and have had. I also gather that his family could easily have paid for whatever care they wanted, out of pocket, and probably not even felt the sting.

Whining because your insurance won't pay for something is valid if you can't afford to pay for it yourself. Murdering someone over it -- sorry, no. Raise a stink, file lawsuits, run for office, start your own health cooperative. Whatever. Murder is not one of the viable available avenues for expressing your dissatisfaction with the system.

I had an interesting conversation with one of my engineers a couple years back. We got onto the subject of health care and taxes and all. As it turns out, if you total up what he pays in taxes plus little supplemental amounts for this and that; apparently there are extra percentages for the NHS and pension and all it's a bit higher than my total outlay if you include all of the government-imposed taxes (income, SS, Medicare, state, etc.) AND my health insurance premiums and deductibles. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

He and his wife just emigrated to Canada, because that was easier and faster than getting directly to the US but still gets them out of London. He nearly doubled his salary for the same job, going from London to Toronto.

If you add up all the taxes we pay in the US, the average tax rate for middle class people is about the same as what someone pays in France, where they have a 35 hour workweek, tons of vacation, govt. administered healthcare, and very strong labor unions. It's not what you pay in taxes, it's what you get back. Very few middle class Americans pay an overall tax rate of 24%, when you factor in federal income tax, state income tax, property tax, sales tax, tax on pretty much every service you receive, and special district assessments for fire, police or water. It is a myth that the US has a lower overall tax rate than the rest of the developed world.

Don't forget wheel taxes, and trash collection fees (more recently mine are included in, oh, wait, my property tax bill). Higher registration fees for hybrid and electric cars, just to be sure they pay their fair share of the gas tax. And look at all the lines of taxes on every single bill you get. Seriously, every single bill. Gas, electric, cable, cell service, all of them have more lines for taxes than for the service itself. And don't get me started on hotel rooms....

This post was not quite
What we were hoping to see
Try again, perhaps?

This post was not quite
What we were hoping to see
Try again, perhaps?

I explicitly said "no politics". Someone didn't pay attention, and now they are no longer a member.

If anyone was in doubt about my commitment to keeping MV (and this topic) clear of political bullshit, let this be a clear signal.

I can fully understand the utter frustration of people with medical cover. Allow me to tell my story...

When I started my 32 year working career in 1987, I had to join a Medical Aid specifically for Government employees - Medihelp. After 1994, democratic freedom included the ability to choose one's medical aid. I had no problem with them, so I stayed a member.
A new government employees medical aid (GEMS) started and I was invited to join, incentivised by a larger employer contribution portion. I didn't join.
When I retired five years ago, I remained a member of Medihelp.

Earlier this year, I finally got the news that I need one knee replacement now with the other to follow in a year or two. My surgeon and I submitted a motivation to Medihelp. The knee replacement proposal was REJECTED.

"The condition is due to wear and tear and is therefore not covered."

This wear and tear occurred during my 37 years of contributory membership, but is now not covered...!!

After a hint from my surgeon, I approached GEMS and, as a retired Government Employee, was admitted as a full member (with increased past employer contribution) and a six month waiting period for existing health conditions. As I included all my past health history in my membership application, I can now have my operation and be fully covered.

To top it all off, I pay 7% less at GEMS than I did at Medihelp for a comparable care package.